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Thread: Q: Dust Collection System in a Small Shop

  1. #1
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    Feb 2003
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    Q: Dust Collection System in a Small Shop

    I'm trying to develop a plan for dust collection in my small basement shop, and have hit a snag. I'm hoping the DC experts here can shed some light. First, some particulars:

    1. The shop is about 13' x 23'.

    2. Major stationary/benchtop dust & chip producers: Delta Contractor's Saw, Powermatic Model 54 6" Jointer, Dewalt 705 Compound Miter Saw, Jet 14" Closed Stand Band Saw, Delta 12" planer, Ridgid Ocsillating Belt/Spindle Sander, Freud FT2000 Router in table saw extention table.

    3. Assorted handheld dust producers, including: Porter Cable 690 router (w/fixed & plung bases), PC 333 Random orbit Sander, Dewalt palm sander.

    4. Dust/Chip Collection Arsenal: Penn State DC1B-XL 1hp dust collector w/ 5 micron bags, connected to a metal trash can w/ separator lid, Delta air cleaner (still in the box - haven't even turned it on yet), ShopVac wet/dry vac.

    OK, now for the dilemma. I currently drag a 15' flex hose around from machine to machine, and as long as the filter bags in the dust collector are clean and I don't let the DC or the trash can fill up, it works just fine. I've never had a blockage or a jam, even with heavy planing. I'd like to set up a more permanent dust collection system. My idea was to use 4" PVC S&D pipe to connect the DC to the big machines, and a smaller (2 1/2"?) network from the ShopVac to my workbench for the handheld tools.

    Penn State says that the DC1B-XL should not be connected to a DC system. A few years ago, that unit got a great review in one of the WW mags, and they said it would work fine with a "small, carefully designed" duct system. I know that using the flex hose results in a significant loss of "suckitude". It seems to me that an equivalent length of 4" PVC would be more efficient, as long as it's a straight run. Elbows and "Y"s in the PVC system would also reduce "suckage", but I wouldn't think it would be as much as 15' of flex hose.

    In an enclosed environment like my basement shop, collecting the dust before it enters my lungs or migrates to SWMBO-Land (the rest of the house) is of great importance to me. Right now, buying a new dust collector isn't in the cards. So, is my plan wishful thinking, complete ignorance, or might it just work?

    Thanks in advance.
    Sam/Atlanta

  2. #2
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    I have roughly the same size shop and was able to work in a cyclone, so don't think you have to go small. I would be concerned that the unit just doesn't do a good job. You may want to at least step up a little and get something with the better bags or filter.
    Scott C. in KC
    Befco Designs

  3. #3
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    Scott:

    Thanks for the reply. Space really isn't the biggest concern. I could probably fit a larger DC or a cyclone in there somewhere. The issue si cost. I just can't really justify spending the $$$ right now.
    Sam/Atlanta

  4. #4
    Sam,

    I'm not expert, but with short runs and low micron bags I think you'll be fine. The key would be good dust capture and making sure you have good velocity at each machine. The DC works fine as a single machine/short run dust collector, I don't see why a well planned small "system" would not work.

    Go for it, you can always upgrade when money is avaiable.

    John

  5. #5
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    Although my shop is larger than yours, I am still using a single hose to my Jet 1100. I have it centrally located so that I don't have to move it very often except for the jointer. Then, I only have to move it about 3 ft. My hose is 10' and I'm using faslock connectors. I have a Jet air cleaner on the ceiling so haven't taken time to figure out how to install a permanent system.

    Stan
    Project Salvager

    The key to the gateway of wisdom is to know that you don't know.______Stan Smith

  6. #6
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    Sam, before I moved to my present property, my shop was in a one-car garage. My DC was a Jet DC-650, which is ostensibly a small collector like yours. I did successfully run a small duct network with 4" S&D and some flex...mostly for convenience. But the total amount of duct was very short--perhaps 15'. It worked acceptably to my knowledge at the time, although had I known what I know now, I would have had a much larger machine. If you use an improved filter, such as bags from AFF, you should be fine if you keep things small and place the DC as close to the action as possible. But you'll probably want to consider it a temporary situation until you can accomodate physically and financially a bigger, more efficient system.

    As to the small tools...stick with the hose from the vac. IMHO, it's not worth the cost to extend that via ductwork. That money can go to materials. But again, that's just one man's opinion.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    Bags??????

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    Sam, before I moved to my present property, my shop was in a one-car garage. My DC was a Jet DC-650, which is ostensibly a small collector like yours. I did successfully run a small duct network with 4" S&D and some flex...mostly for convenience. But the total amount of duct was very short--perhaps 15'. It worked acceptably to my knowledge at the time, although had I known what I know now, I would have had a much larger machine. If you use an improved filter, such as bags from AFF, you should be fine if you keep things small and place the DC as close to the action as possible. But you'll probably want to consider it a temporary situation until you can accomodate physically and financially a bigger, more efficient system.

    As to the small tools...stick with the hose from the vac. IMHO, it's not worth the cost to extend that via ductwork. That money can go to materials. But again, that's just one man's opinion.
    such as bags from AFF
    Where is AFF or Who I will be looking for new bags as soon as my back ordered DC arrivies.
    It comes with 30 micron bags and from all the other posts I have read I think I will switch to smaller bags .
    Jim

  8. #8
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    I'll jump in with a similar set of questions. I have the Jet-650 and my shop is only about 13 x 15. I also just move a 10' hose from machine to machine.

    One problem I have noticed is that the bag that came with it, 30 micron, returns a lot of dust back into the air. Especially if I am using my downdraft table for sanding.

    So I am interested in a finer micron bag.

    The real question though is do any of you use a garbage bag on the bottom half of the DC rather than the fabric one. Would doing this reduce the efficiency too much? I have seen pictures of this occasionally but have not tried it.

  9. #9
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    The other question is:

    For sanding dust do I need 1 micron or 5 micron bags?

    I found a decent price from Penn State Industries for a two-bag set that will fit the Jet-650. They have both 5 and 1 micron sets.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Wolfe
    such as bags from AFF
    Where is AFF or Who I will be looking for new bags as soon as my back ordered DC arrivies. It comes with 30 micron bags and from all the other posts I have read I think I will switch to smaller bags .
    Jim
    AFF is American Fabric Filter

    Don't downsize your bags as it will further restrict air flow...get better ones.

    I also want to clarify that in my post above I am not saying that you should expect a DC650 or similar DC to perform really well with any kind of duct work. Consider it a stop-gap measure for a bit of convenience until you can get yourself set up with something that can move a lot more air. Dust collection is all about moving air. The higher the air flow, the better the system will pull in dust and chips from your machines. The more dust you collect at the source, the less that will be in the air...provided you have high-quality filtration on said DC. (Yes, it's a circular problem!)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
    I had a DC1 XL5 from penn state I had it hooked up with furnace pipe to my planer drum sander and a few other machines worked ok,,,,,
    Mike

  12. #12
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    Portsmouth, VA
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    Had that Unit hooked to a ductwork system

    Sam
    I had that unit hooked to a system made of 4" pvc pipe with runs as long as 20'. I thought that the suction at the far end was ok, though not spectacular. I minimized the amount of flex hose used to what was necessary to go from the blast gate to the tool in use.

    The most dust intensive usage was the benchtop planer and the system kept up with it just fine. With 4" pipe you will see max around 350-400 cfm on any open port. I also used two floor sweeps which were real handy to keep the shop clean. This system would only support one open port at any one time.

    Course that was then, now I am in the process of rebuilding the ductwork with 6" to go along with the DC-250 2hp collector I just got. The existing 4" stuff was in the wrong place and from what I read would just choke the flow down to nothing. I ran the other system about 3 years and wanted something that sucked more and would run multiple ports at the same time. I'll still run 4" ports to individual machines since most of them don't need more than 400 cfm and 6" is tougher to work around than the 4" stuff was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Chambers
    I'm trying to develop a plan for dust collection in my small basement shop, and have hit a snag. I'm hoping the DC experts here can shed some light. First, some particulars:

    1. The shop is about 13' x 23'.

    2. Major stationary/benchtop dust & chip producers: Delta Contractor's Saw, Powermatic Model 54 6" Jointer, Dewalt 705 Compound Miter Saw, Jet 14" Closed Stand Band Saw, Delta 12" planer, Ridgid Ocsillating Belt/Spindle Sander, Freud FT2000 Router in table saw extention table.

    3. Assorted handheld dust producers, including: Porter Cable 690 router (w/fixed & plung bases), PC 333 Random orbit Sander, Dewalt palm sander.

    4. Dust/Chip Collection Arsenal: Penn State DC1B-XL 1hp dust collector w/ 5 micron bags, connected to a metal trash can w/ separator lid, Delta air cleaner (still in the box - haven't even turned it on yet), ShopVac wet/dry vac.

    OK, now for the dilemma. I currently drag a 15' flex hose around from machine to machine, and as long as the filter bags in the dust collector are clean and I don't let the DC or the trash can fill up, it works just fine. I've never had a blockage or a jam, even with heavy planing. I'd like to set up a more permanent dust collection system. My idea was to use 4" PVC S&D pipe to connect the DC to the big machines, and a smaller (2 1/2"?) network from the ShopVac to my workbench for the handheld tools.

    Penn State says that the DC1B-XL should not be connected to a DC system. A few years ago, that unit got a great review in one of the WW mags, and they said it would work fine with a "small, carefully designed" duct system. I know that using the flex hose results in a significant loss of "suckitude". It seems to me that an equivalent length of 4" PVC would be more efficient, as long as it's a straight run. Elbows and "Y"s in the PVC system would also reduce "suckage", but I wouldn't think it would be as much as 15' of flex hose.

    In an enclosed environment like my basement shop, collecting the dust before it enters my lungs or migrates to SWMBO-Land (the rest of the house) is of great importance to me. Right now, buying a new dust collector isn't in the cards. So, is my plan wishful thinking, complete ignorance, or might it just work?

    Thanks in advance.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Aquino
    I also used two floor sweeps which were real handy to keep the shop clean.
    'Just a reminder that floor sweeps should really only be used with a cyclone system (or minimally with another kind of pre-separator) that insures that anything picked up does not pass through the impeller of a blower. Metal bits hitting metal fan blades can make for sparks which can in turn, ignite chips, dust and filter bags. This is a very different issue than the myths about static electricity, etc...and it could be a real problem for you.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Ithaca, New York
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    53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Chambers
    I'm trying to develop a plan for dust collection in my small basement shop, and have hit a snag. I'm hoping the DC experts here can shed some light. First, some particulars:

    1. The shop is about 13' x 23'.

    2. Major stationary/benchtop dust & chip producers: Delta Contractor's Saw, Powermatic Model 54 6" Jointer, Dewalt 705 Compound Miter Saw, Jet 14" Closed Stand Band Saw, Delta 12" planer, Ridgid Ocsillating Belt/Spindle Sander, Freud FT2000 Router in table saw extention table.

    3. Assorted handheld dust producers, including: Porter Cable 690 router (w/fixed & plung bases), PC 333 Random orbit Sander, Dewalt palm sander.

    4. Dust/Chip Collection Arsenal: Penn State DC1B-XL 1hp dust collector w/ 5 micron bags, connected to a metal trash can w/ separator lid, Delta air cleaner (still in the box - haven't even turned it on yet), ShopVac wet/dry vac.

    OK, now for the dilemma. I currently drag a 15' flex hose around from machine to machine, and as long as the filter bags in the dust collector are clean and I don't let the DC or the trash can fill up, it works just fine. I've never had a blockage or a jam, even with heavy planing. I'd like to set up a more permanent dust collection system. My idea was to use 4" PVC S&D pipe to connect the DC to the big machines, and a smaller (2 1/2"?) network from the ShopVac to my workbench for the handheld tools.

    Penn State says that the DC1B-XL should not be connected to a DC system. A few years ago, that unit got a great review in one of the WW mags, and they said it would work fine with a "small, carefully designed" duct system. I know that using the flex hose results in a significant loss of "suckitude". It seems to me that an equivalent length of 4" PVC would be more efficient, as long as it's a straight run. Elbows and "Y"s in the PVC system would also reduce "suckage", but I wouldn't think it would be as much as 15' of flex hose.

    In an enclosed environment like my basement shop, collecting the dust before it enters my lungs or migrates to SWMBO-Land (the rest of the house) is of great importance to me. Right now, buying a new dust collector isn't in the cards. So, is my plan wishful thinking, complete ignorance, or might it just work?

    Thanks in advance.
    Sam,

    Before you do anything, call the folks at Oneida Air Systems. They are extremely knowledgeable and helpful. The number is 800-732-4065.

  15. #15
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    Dec 2003
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    SF Bay Area, CA
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    15,331
    Sam,

    If you haven't already, please read up at Bill Pentz's excellent/informative LONG web site:

    http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworki...lone/index.cfm

    I ended up going with the kit he and Clarke Echols have put together. However, the cyclone is still in the box, the 5-HP Leeson is still in the box, the impeller from Sheldon's is still in the box, and the blower housing is, you guessed it, still in the box. I will get to it but too many other irons in the fire right now.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

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