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Thread: 220 Outlets

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Middleton, Idaho
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    1,018
    Hi steve,

    I have just finished building my shop, and I did all of the wiring. I have about 4 or 5, 220 outlets on each circut. On 3 of the 4 walls in my shop, I have 220 outlets every 4 feet. each wall is on a different circut. I live in Calif and had all necessary permits. The inspector did inspect my wiring and commented on my 220 outlets. His comment was, that I did my 220 like most people do 110. He said that was fine and singed my permit. In addition all of my outlets are pig tailed. My inspector does not let anything pass unless it is within code.

    Hope this helps, Sam
    Last edited by Sam Layton; 01-25-2008 at 2:22 PM.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Layton View Post
    Hi steve,

    I have just finished building my shop, and I did all of the wiring. I have about 4 or 5, 220 outlets on each circut. On 3 of the 4 walls in my shop, I have 220 outlets every 4 feet. each wall is on a different circut. I live in Calif and had all necessary permits. The inspector did inspect my wiring and commented on my 220 outlets. His comment was, that I did my 220 like most people do 110. He said that was fine and singed my permit. In addition all of my outlets are pig tailed. My inspector does not let anything pass unless it is within code.

    Hope this helps, Sam
    Hey Sam, not to hijack this thread, but how long ago was this and how much did those permits cost you? I'm going to be rewiring my shop this spring and am very curious about this
    Jason Beam
    Sacramento, CA

    beamerweb.com

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    South Windsor, CT
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    3,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Haycraft View Post
    Off the top of my head, i would say yes, but that would only apply to hard wired equipment and not receptacles.
    Eric,

    The correct answer is 'No'.

    There is an entire section of the NEC dedicated to motors. It is entirely permissable to have multiple, large, loads hardwired to a single circuit. There are definitely rules about conductor size, short circuit protection and overload protection that get rather complicated for these kinds of installations. Suffice it to say that we don't want to get into that sort of detail here because it would absolutely confuse things very quickly.

    Rob
    Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    South Windsor, CT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Haycraft View Post
    Go here:
    http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/Ab....asp?DocNum=70
    Near the bottom are links to view the documents for various years. You can't download or store them, but for the casual user it beats paying 70 bucks.
    That's a great resource - I didn't know it was available. I've definitely added it to my Favorites so I can find it again.

    Flipping though it, I wouldn't want to look up a whole lot of stuff, but it's great as a reference to point people to when there's a question about what the NEC says.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Mpls, Minn
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    Insert the required "check with your local codes" here.
    fwiw I have a extension cord that has 4 220 outlets on it, it powers my joiner/planer/dust filter and would prob work on the welder I have too.
    But not all at the same time.

    I does do the DC and joiner or planer just fine and is rated for more amps than they draw together.

    Not saying you should do it, but its worked well for me.
    I would probably wire them differently if I was in a more permanat shop, but the wife's car has to fit in the shop/garage from time to time also..

    Al
    Remember our vets, they need our help, just like they helped us.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Sam Layton View Post
    ....In addition all of my outlets are pig tailed. My inspector does not let anything pass unless it is within code.
    I wanted to comment on this previously, but didn't want to get too long winded at the time. There was provisions in code that permitted using the device as a connection point under certain circumstances. I don't know if these provisions are still in place in the newer code, but it is never a good idea. When in doubt, pigtailing is the best solution. You really do not want the power of the entire downstream circuit feeding through the connectors on a single outlet. This is true regardless whether it is 120 or 240 volt.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
    I wanted to comment on this previously, but didn't want to get too long winded at the time. There was provisions in code that permitted using the device as a connection point under certain circumstances. I don't know if these provisions are still in place in the newer code, but it is never a good idea. When in doubt, pigtailing is the best solution. You really do not want the power of the entire downstream circuit feeding through the connectors on a single outlet. This is true regardless whether it is 120 or 240 volt.
    Thanks Rick. This is very boldly noted for me. My (recently purchased, first) house is loaded with "piggybacked" outlets - One day, when my tuit becomes circular, the house will be getting rewired and now will be pigtailed as much as possible.

    I wanna say thanks to all of you guys who put forth all this information. I know how hard it is to offer advice in sometimes blind situations and I truly appreciate the efforts made by folks like you, rob and tom.
    Jason Beam
    Sacramento, CA

    beamerweb.com

  8. #23
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    Feb 2003
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    South Windsor, CT
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    3,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Willits View Post
    Insert the required "check with your local codes" here.
    fwiw I have a extension cord that has 4 220 outlets on it, it powers my joiner/planer/dust filter and would prob work on the welder I have too.
    But not all at the same time.

    I does do the DC and joiner or planer just fine and is rated for more amps than they draw together.

    Not saying you should do it, but its worked well for me.
    I would probably wire them differently if I was in a more permanat shop, but the wife's car has to fit in the shop/garage from time to time also..

    Al
    Al,

    If you think about it - local electrical codes can't apply to what you're doing because you're not installing anything permanently.

    As long as you're running an "extension cord" in a residential environment (I'd assume OSHA could get involved with commercial/industrial environments), the load is a "cord and plug" connected load. It's no different than a table lamp, except it draws more current and possibly runs at a higher voltage.

    If you hard-wired the cord in, that would be different.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Rob

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
    When in doubt, pigtailing is the best solution.
    Being a complete novice, and unaware what pigtailing is, could you clarify? I'm guessing it is paralleling from one outlet to another, but I do not know.

  10. #25
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    Feb 2003
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    South Windsor, CT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Gustafson View Post
    Being a complete novice, and unaware what pigtailing is, could you clarify? I'm guessing it is paralleling from one outlet to another, but I do not know.
    Pigtailing is when you put short (6") pieces of conductor on the device (typically a receptacle, sometimes a switch) and connect those "pigtails" to the conductors in the box with wire nuts or some other form of approved connection. The hot conductor coming in to the box is wirenutted to the hot pigtail for the device and also to the hot conductor that's heading out to the next box. Ditto for the neutral and equipment grounding conductors.

    Imagine that you're running a circuit to feed a series of receptacles. The NM-B (aka Romex) feeds into a box. It supplies power to that receptacle and then a run of NM-B heads out to the next box. There are 2 ways to attach the receptacle to the circuit.

    The first - pigtailing - means that the device is wired "off to the side" of the circuit.

    The other method means that the feeding conductors come into the receptacle and are attached to 1 set of the screws on the side of the receptacle. The conductors that are heading out to feed the next box are attached to the other set of screws on the receptacle. This method may seem easier than pigtailing, but it means that the receptacle is much more inserted into the circuit and can cause more of a voltage drop down-circuit.

    There are cases where it's a requirement to "pigtail" devices because it guarantees continuity of the neutral conductors.

    If I've just made this confusing, holler and I'll try to find a good picture somewhere.

    Rob

  11. #26
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    Apr 2006
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    Mpls, Minn
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    Thanks Rob, I was just throwing the required CYA in...

    Al
    Remember our vets, they need our help, just like they helped us.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
    Posts
    617
    Ok, great information and now two more stupid questions. This is my first time running conduit (metal EMT)

    1. What is the correct way to cut the conduit? I am planning on using a hacksaw.

    2. What is the tool called that will remove the burr left by cutting either with a hacksaw, or the correct tool?

    Any other conduit warnings or requirements. I will be going in 3/4 conduit directly from the sub-panel to an outlet box.

    For a 220 circuit I'll run a red,black, and white wire. Should I also run a green wire and just connect it to the box?

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, Ca.
    Posts
    69
    I stand corrected!! This is refreshing because I can now add a few more 220's of my existing circuits. Thanks Guys!!

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sylvania, OH
    Posts
    102
    Steve, I was wondering about a similar question. I know that if you are putting in dedicated 240 volt receptacles, then you would only need to run the red and the black (or two black) wires to carry the 240 volts, plus the green grounding wire if you choose not to use the metal conduit as your grounding connection.

    I would like to have 120 volt receptacles mounted adjacent to my 240 volt ones to provide greater flexibility (plug in my 240 volt lathe and a 120 volt light on the lathe for instance).

    I was considering on running a white neutral wire from the sub-panel in addition to the two black and green ones. This would allow me to wire up a 120 volt receptacle adjacent to the 240 volt one. Is it acceptable practice to use one of the black wires from a 240 volt run in conjunction with a neutral to get your 120 volts? (This presumes that I'll use an adequate gauge wire, likely 10, and will use 20 amp outlets for both the 240 and 120 volt receptacles with a 20 amp breaker.) Or should I run a separate line for the 120 volt and use a separate circuit. Also, can the 240 volt and 120 volt receptacles be contained within the same box or do they require separate boxes? Thanks.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Russell View Post

    If I've just made this confusing, holler and I'll try to find a good picture somewhere.

    Rob
    No need. That is perfectly clear and I can see why that is better. Does the code require pigtailing? The reason I ask, is that I doubt any outlet in the house was done so, except for a few I have replaced and did it just to make it easier to insert the outlet back in the box.

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