Pitted old mortise chisel, problem?

[James Carmichael]

I found this old mortising chisel for sale on a website. The seller doesn't know much about it, no stamps on the blade, but the price is reasonable. My concern is what appears to be pitting, the seller doesn't think it's pitted but I've handled enough old steel to know it when I see it. Since I would be buying it as a user, would the pitting a problem?

I attached a pic but haven't tried this before, so bear with me if it's not there.

[Scott Quesnelle]

Pitting is a problem if its near the cutting edge. You need a perfectly flat back on a mortice chisel, This provides 2 things:

1) flat surface to get your sharp edge off of. Can't do that if there is a big pit in the middle of the back.

2) provides a surface for it to ride down on. I

The sides seem pretty badly pitted. Which is a problem since they are what help you keep the mortise square.

Newer sorby's or marples are not too expensive, and I would start with just a single size maybe 2 to start with, get used to them, then add to it as you need more sizes.

I would probably pass on that chisel.

Take a look at :
http://www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/index.htm

if you want to make your own chisels.

or
http://www.amgron.clara.net/mortise/mortisingindex.htm
For more good mortising info.

Scott

[James Carmichael]

Pitting is a problem if its near the cutting edge. You need a perfectly flat back on a mortice chisel, This provides 2 things:

1) flat surface to get your sharp edge off of. Can't do that if there is a big pit in the middle of the back.

2) provides a surface for it to ride down on. I

The sides seem pretty badly pitted. Which is a problem since they are what help you keep the mortise square.

Newer sorby's or marples are not too expensive, and I would start with just a single size maybe 2 to start with, get used to them, then add to it as you need more sizes.

I would probably pass on that chisel.

Take a look at :
http://www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/index.htm

if you want to make your own chisels.

or
http://www.amgron.clara.net/mortise/mortisingindex.htm
For more good mortising info.

Scott

Thanks Scott, that's kinda what I was thinking the sides. I got the seller to send me another pic and it's equally bad on the back, so will definitely pass on that one.

I have looked at the paragon site since I did buy an old, unmarked, 1/8" socket mortising chisel off of Ebay. No handle so I am looking forward to making one. 1/8" would be an awfully skinny tennon, though, I'm thinking 1/4" or 3/8" would be about right for joining 4/4 stock.

As for Marples, I have not been able to locate their mortising chisels anywhere except on ebay and they're all in the UK.

[Michael Perata]

As for Marples.

James

I have two Sorby sash (mortising) chisels and like them alot.

[Marc Hills]

My concern is what appears to be pitting, the seller doesn't think it's pitted but I've handled enough old steel to know it when I see it.

Hi James:

Pity that the seller doesn't have a picture showing the back, which as Scott indicated, is the critical surface. I guess you need to assume that if the sides are that badly pitted, the back side would also be so. I can actually think of one good reason why the back might *not* be in such poor condition, but since you are thinking about buying this sight unseen, you have to make that assumption.

If it makes you feel any better, to my eye, the blade of this chisel looks misaligned relative to its socket. It appears to be bent in the direction of the bevel side of the blade, probably as the result of years of levering out chips. The area where the blade transitions to the socket might be weakened.

James, I too am looking for mortise chisels, and old iron is one of my options. I hear a lot of advice to seek out the old names (Witherby, Sorby, Pexto, et al). But one huge risk in buying vintage chisels that I never hear discussed is that the temper of the blade may have been lost some where along the way by over-zealous grinding. For those of us still uncomfortable about re-tempering steel, isn't that a pretty significant risk?

[James Carmichael]

Marc,

Yes, I think you have a point. Aside from the fact that I enjoy restoring old tools, I am somewhat concerned about the steel in the older stuff. I don't know a lot about tool steel, but having been a competitive marksman and hack gunsmith in a former life, I do know that today's gun steels far outperform technologies as recent as 20-years ago.

Having researched thorougly, I've decided a Two-cherries or Hirsch will be worth the extra cash. If you look at the specs, the Two-cherries blades are so much thicker than any others. Also, $50 is cheap compared to a collector-grade PEXTO, Swan, et. all, and, as I recall, when I first inquired about tools on this forum, the common advise was to go with the best quality I could get.

If I happen across a bargain on a fixer-upper, I'll count that as a fun project. I already have a 1/8" no-name socket mortise en-route that needs a handle and looking forward to playing with that (I think I enjoy restoring old tools more than actually using them:-)

Just an FYI, I found Rockler has an Ashley Iles 3/16" that they call a "spline removal" chisel for about $20 that looks like a stout mortising chisel (I would think chopping splines is about the same as mortising). When I called the local store, they said it showed as 1/8" on their computer, but that looks like an awfully good price if you're on a tight budget.