Please help with new wood floor.

[John Hain]

We had this floor installed this summer in our kitchen. There are SEVERAL areas where the wood is pulling apart, and I've included some pictures of the areas.

We have alerted the builder of this as it really affects the floor and looks pretty poor. Before I contact him again, I need some expert opinions to the severity of the problem. Obviously, this is the first winter for this house and floor so I expect some problems, but........this floor covers a pretty big area and there are areas (as shown in the pictures) all over the place. The floor is pulling apart and doesn't look good.

Is this natural to see this in the winter? Is it normal? I don't ever remember seeing other wood floors that look this bad. After seeing the pics, should I get more aggressive about having them fix the floor. I think to fix it, they'll have to tear the whole thing up and start again. That's how widespread the problem appears.

As always, thanks for looking. By the way, I just contributed as I have forgotten lately to do so.......no need to remind me anymore!

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[Paul Girouard]

I'd say the flooring was not sufficiently acclimated to the room / house before it was laid.

Did any one do a moisture content check of the flooring AND the sub-floor over which it was laid?


My old house, 50 plus years old, has R. Oak shorts which where under carpet for at least 20 years , so they got some abuse from carpet cleaning / being wet then shrinking , pet issues , etc .

For floors like yours , new wood laid over existing sub-floors that I assume where "dry" as in not new construction "wet" , as in just dryed in from being built . I'd not expect to see that much movement this soon, UNLESS the flooring was #1 Not dry / acclimated , both sub-floor and flooring should be within 2 % of each other AND under 8 % MC. Or dryer if a in floor heat system is present.

Any variance either way and issues will appear .

[Eddie Watkins]

John, after reading your post, I went and looked at our wood floor. In an area appoximately 640 sq ft there are 2 places that have cracks 1/8" about 2-3 ft long. While ther are some gaps elsewhwere they are so small (less than 1/16th") I can't see much separation.
FYI. The floor is on a concrete slab with a 3/4" plywood base and the boards on top of that. THe wood is oak T&G. We keep our house 76 degress in the summer and 68 degrees in the winter. The floor is 10 years old. I can't answer if it is normal or not, maybe somebody else can. I hope this information helps.

Eddie

[John Hain]

The house was new construction. You would think they measured the moisture content of the flooring and subfloor before proceeding, but I don't know as we weren't involved when they were building the house. The builders have a great reputation, but this was done by a subcontractor.

Will the floor ever look good? Will an increase in humidity re-expand the slats and hide the problem only for it to recur every winter? I just don't know, and for the price we paid for this house, and a 1 year span to get changes done on defective areas, I'm not willing to sit around and wait.

The problem: if this floor needs to be replaced it will cost the subcontractors thousands of dollars as this is a big floor. I can only assume that we're in for a fight as they will NOT want to replace it and will try every excuse not to do so. I don't want to replace it either as it will really mess up things for awhile in the house. But I have no intention of having a poorly done floor in our nice new house.

[Paul Girouard]

No it will never look better , the gaps may get smaller in the summer when your heat is turned off , but they are highly unlikely to close back up totally.

If the flooring was not checked that is the problem.

They are a few other variables but IMO the flooring was not allowed to equalize or was not dry enought when it was laid.

You'll get a fight as there will be many excuses to the why.

Good luck.

[Chuck Lenz]

Solid wood floors move, thats why when a wood floor is installed it isn't pushed up right to the wall. Usually there a 1/2" space between the wall and the flooring all the way around the perimeter of the room. I use to refinish floors for about a year and usually everyone wanted the gaps between the boards filled. Once again wood floors move, and filling the gaps may look ok for awhile until the floor moves again and it pops the putty out. So we suggested no wood filler. It's just the nature of the beast. Your floor is fine.

[Tim A. Mitchell]

May or may not be fine. Your builder may have to cover this under warrenty. Thie criteria for the warenty to kick in may not be met, so they may feel the floor is performing as intended.

The firs pic you posted looks like the board has warped and caused separation. There is a gap on alternate sides of adjacent boards. This would make me think that the wood had not acclimated to yuor home, as others indicated.

Often it depends on how much you want to fight. Many builders will want you to be happy. I just worked with a national builder that spent well over a quarter million to fix some water issues that were the fault of the developer. Of course, thier insurance paid for it, but still, they wanted to b sure the customers (that complained) were taken care of.

If I remember, I will look into some documents at the office that give performance criteria for newly constructed items. I am sure wood floors would be in there. There was a section on excessivly squeeky staitr treads.

[Paul Girouard]

Chuck if this is / would be considered "normal " for your floor installs / finishings it's easy to see why you "used" to install flooring.

And I'm NOT saying you did this floor , BUT if after less than a year , that many boards , in that small a area , are separated there WAS a installation problem directly related to the MC of the flooring.

Yes , wood floors move , BUT IF both sub-floor and flooring are within 2% of each other when it's installed, they move "better" together. If that floor where 5 or 10 years old I'd say it looked normal. But not after less than one year





What kind of dog do you own John ? Those are some big scratches

[John Hain]

Chuck if this is / would be considered "normal " for your floor installs / finishings it's easy to see why you "used" to install flooring.

And I'm NOT saying you did this floor , BUT if after less than a year , that many boards , in that small a area , are separated there WAS a installation problem directly related to the MC of the flooring.

Yes , wood floors move , BUT IF both sub-floor and flooring are within 2% of each other when it's installed, they move "better" together. If that floor where 5 or 10 years old I'd say it looked normal. But not after less than one year





What kind of dog do you own John ? Those are some big scratches

LOL! We have a 40lb Viszla and a 90lb Weimaraner. We knew the scratches would happen. But the floor literally coming apart was not on the agenda. Luckily, this photo is from a very high traffic area. The remainder of the area doesn't look so scratched.

[Chuck Lenz]

Chuck if this is / would be considered "normal " for your floor installs / finishings it's easy to see why you "used" to install flooring.

And I'm NOT saying you did this floor , BUT if after less than a year , that many boards , in that small a area , are separated there WAS a installation problem directly related to the MC of the flooring.

Yes , wood floors move , BUT IF both sub-floor and flooring are within 2% of each other when it's installed, they move "better" together. If that floor where 5 or 10 years old I'd say it looked normal. But not after less than one year

Well excuse me Paul, I don't believe that I said that I installed floors, I REFINISHED them, but I was around enough of them to know whats acceptable and whats not. Further more, does anyone have any idea if the guy is useing a humidifier in the winter to keep things from drying out ? Large fluxuations in humidity can make it move also.

[John Hain]

Well excuse me Paul, I don't believe that I said that I installed floors, I REFINISHED them, but I was around enough of them to know whats acceptable and whats not. Further more, does anyone have any idea if the guy is useing a humidifier in the winter to keep things from drying out ? Large fluxuations in humidity can make it move also.

Yes, active humidification throughout the house integrated into HVAC. Works quite well.

[Brian Weick]

I have a few questions ~ what is the thickness of the flooring first of all? What direction was the layout of the flooring run > parallel with the floor joists or perpendicular to the floor joists? Did they install a vapor bearer on the sub floor before the installation process began? What did they use as a fastening application- staples/Cleet nails-?.
Brian

[Gary Keedwell]

Were those pictures of the floor taken at eye level or were they taken close-up. Just curious....they don't look that bad.

Gary

[Jay Jolliffe]

Wood moves from summer to winter. More moisture in the summer so it will be tight. Winter there's less moisture & the heat in the house will shrink the wood . I have wood floors in my house over radiant heat in gypcreat. The wood sat in my house for 3 to 4 months before I put it down. The moisture content was between 5 & 6 which is low. When they delivered the wood it was around 12 percent. I put it in the summer & it was nice and tight. Now there is maybe 1/16th to 1/8 between some boards. I knew this was going to happen so we live with it. I really doubt that the contractor will replace it. Good Luck...

[Paul Girouard]

I have a few questions ~ what is the thickness of the flooring first of all?

What direction was the layout of the flooring run > parallel with the floor joists or perpendicular to the floor joists?

Did they install a vapor bearer on the sub floor before the installation process began?

What did they use as a fastening application- staples/Cleet nails-?.

My statements where based on it being 13/16 net 3/4" Normal Red Oak hardwood .

Also assumed to be run perpendicular to the floor joist.

With a red rosen / builders paper laid over the sub floor under the Oak.

Nailed with flooring nails the T type.



Chuck I never seen a Oak floor or Maple Jatoba floor that was NOT filled before finishing , and or Re-finishing. It IS a common practice pryor to final sanding.

IMO for a new floor to look that bad in under a year there HAD to be steps missing , poor installation practice's done, MOST LIKELY it was not acclimated properly.

As I said IF the floor was ten years old it would look like it does.