End cap dovetail question

[Michael Hammers]

I did not want to hijack the other dovetail fitting thread, so here is my question.....

I just cut the (and here we go, lysdexic's untie) pin part of my bench end cap and pared it to origional line.


So, this is 2 5/8 African mahogany. the face piece is 2/18" walnut. I have been thinking about the test fit and danger of dry fitting the pieces and then I remembered in one of the WW mags someone speaking of using CHALK and test fitting to get a good tight fit. So has anyone else tried this? Getting a good tight fit in this thick of material is worrying me.


On a side note.......maybe its my mild dyslexia but I have never been able to keep straight the pins and tails terminology. Why not just say the male and female? Pins reminds me of a male part and tail the female part....I think those 'cross the pond folks did this just to mess with me....)

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pins are cut on an angle from front to back, so if you look at the top of the end of the board and the artifacts (couldn't think of a better word, sorry) are wider on one side than on the other, you're looking at pins.

Tails are cut on an angle from top to bottom, so if you look at the side of an end, the artifacts are tapered, wider at the top.

As to dry fitting, I have no additional advice.

Pam

[Mike Henderson]

I remember the difference this way. Hold the board up with the face of the board towards you. The one that looks like turkey tails (in honor of Thanksgiving) has the "tails". The one that looks like straight things has the "pins".

Mike

[Ray Knight]

I just did a joinery class at marc adams school. Knew nothing going in, fair now. The really good technique guys cut them and they went together, the rest of us (and occasionally marc as well) had to fine tune them. occasionally you could just see where the tight spot was, but we frequently rubbed pencil on one part, assembled until snug and saw where the pencil transferred, pare there a bit, refit, etc, etc.
And I could never get the pins/tails straight until I came up with the sexual analogy, the pin is the part that goes into the tail. Works for me. Ray

[Wiley Horne]

Michael,

I've done this job you're describing exactly once. Here's my experience....Both the pins and the tails boards were hard maple, each one 2-3/4" thick. The boards were 8" deep, and so I used 4 pins and 3 tails. I mention this, because it matters how many surfaces you're forcing together.

Once the two boards were ready, I laid the tails board down flat and checked to see if I could get the pins board (the short end piece) started into it. OK, that checked. Pretty close fit, but I could start the pins board. Then I realized, these boards are going to have to be driven together by clamping force. Applied a couple of long clamps, and by the time I got the pins board about 1/4" into the tails board (dry), I realized I was at a decision point: (1) either stop right now, take a 2 lb sledge and separate the boards, glue, and do a final clamp up, or (2) just drive them together dry, and call it good.

Now in my case, the fit looked good enough, that I just drove them together dry. So the test fit was the final fit.

I suggest you do the same drill I did, which is first make sure you can start the pins board into the tails board. If you pass that test, then make a decision on your feet whether you want to knock them apart to apply glue, or else just proceed with a dry fit. Your gut will tell you the answer more than any intellectualizing about it.

If you take this approach, the main thing you want to be sure about is whether the pins board is going to hang up on you once you're committed. You want to be confident that the pins board will go all the way home. To get this confidence, check to see that (a) the pins are not getting fatter toward their base, and (b) both the pins and tails boards are clean as a hound's tooth at their baselines. Might want to _slightly_ undercut the seats in the pins board.

That's what I got out of my example, which worked out fine.

Wiley

[Marcus Ward]

Wow, I'm reading this and I just realized there is no glue in the tail vise on my workbench. I think I just hammered it together and went with it. Good fit. I recommend adding glue, however. I think it'll work itself out one day. Devil.

[Michael Hammers]

Just back from Turkey day and gotta good laugh from some of y'all.
Wiley, thanks, I will try your approach....as far as undercutting the pins, I am not sure about that just yet.