Good News and Bad News

[Keith Outten]

I just checked our Active Users number this morning. We are at 9,781 so we should reach 10,000 in less than 5 days. Our total number of registered Members will hit 25,000 in less time.

This is the growth rate I have been talking about.

.

[Mike Hood]

I just checked our Active Users number this morning. We are at 9,781 so we should reach 10,000 in less than 5 days. Our total number of registered Members will hit 25,000 in less time.

This is the growth rate I have been talking about.

.

That number can be taken many ways Keith as you may know. By default, VBulletin treats any member who logs in every 30 days as an "Active Member" (including NEW users). Slide that number to 7 days and watch your "Active Members" become a bit more accurate.

It's a pretty coarse number that most admins use sort of like an inflated hit counter. Use your user activity stats and transactions log to get a better representation of a forums growth.

[Matt Meiser]

What does it matter? All that matters is that in comparison to the past the growth has been dramatic. Kieth has made it clear that:

1) The amount of effort needed to administer this forum has grown to the point where it is more than he is willing to voluntarily support. He's graciously hosted us for years and for for the last 2 has asked us for $6 lousy bucks in return.
2) He's decided that he's not going run an ad-supported forum. Its his right, he owns this forum.
3) He's not willing to run a hosted forum. Again, its his right, he owns the forum.

He's made it pretty clear that he's going to run his forum his way or he's not going to do it. I wouldn't blame him one bit if he shut this forum down tomorrow. Many have an opinion on how he should manage it, few are willing to support him, but plenty are willing to take advantage what he's offering us.

[Mike Hood]

You're 100% correct. The owner of a forum can do pretty much whatever they wish.

BUT... one thing to keep in mind is this is only a $160 piece of software, that can be hosted for around $125 a year. The only reason it's as active as it is, is for the participation of members (paid or not).

It's a delicate balance that every forum based website has to walk very carefully. Stir the pot for the $$$ too briskly and you lose the attraction that brings the users in the first place.

Advertising, services, features and member only areas are all ways too build revenue, but they must be transparent to the first time user, or they won't come back.

For example... I only check into the "LASERS & CNC FORUM". Mostly to see what people are talking about and to help out like I was helped a few times. It's got nothing to do with the software, the $6, or Keith's income.

If you lose the users... or the helpful free advice... or the fun... you might as well have a blog.

[Matt Meiser]

Well then so be it. Keith has said he's not willing to run this forum that way. This forum was a great success from with good participation when we had a few hundred members.

[Mike Hood]

I'm not predicting anything less. I'm just saying I've been down this road before. If you want to contribute and have paid $6, go right ahead. If you want to stop me from contributing because I have not... that's an option also.

But... if you think that Keith will raise $125,000 a year for administering a piece of software, I'd guess you'd fall short.

($125,000 = 25,000 members x $6 each)

What he's missing (in my opinion), is the valuable commercial value that a FREE forum has (with a 25,000+ membership of course). Sidebar advertising, rotating banners, sponsored ads, group discounts, promotional offers, even pass-through links... are incredibly valuable and worth much more than $6 a head.

Negotiate some member-only discounts with some vendors. Watch how fast the contributions roll in.

[Jared Greenberg]

It's a great deal for us Canadians now!

[Keith Outten]

Mike,

I solved the salary issue when I removed 90% of the workload.
The commercial value of SawMill Creek has never been a primary consideration.
.

[Gary Hair]

Gary,

Not a fair comparison, if you want a close comparison it is like paying a post man to deliver the mail, even though the sender has paid for the postage in our case taking the time to contribute to the forum the recipient need to pay a small amount to get it.

Kim

Kim,
My comparison might not have been the best, and yours is not quite exact either - no argument there. I do get your point and agree that there is a value on the contribution that people like Rodne make, and I appreciate them very much for that.

The fact remains that this forum would not exist if it were not for Keith putting out the money to physically have a site and there would be no content if it were not for people like Rodne, and many, many others, who freely give their knowledge. Nobody is arguing about the value of the content, the argument seems to be in the delivery. Keith has given a significant amount of time and money, he needs to be reimbursed, and compensated, for this effort.

Gary

[Scott Shepherd]

In the spirit of Thanksgiving (not sure what that has to do with it, but it seems like a good scape goat), can we lock this thread and end this? It's been beat to death by everyone 10 times over.

Is there really anything left to say that's constructive? Let's get back to posting laser info and let's let Keith run the place how he wants and let the rest work itself out.

Just my two cents worth.

[Alan Young]

Keith

Thank you for your answerer to my questions. It was good to understand your reasoning for the way you would like to run this site. I support your decisions and I will continue to support the creek how ever I can.

Would it be possible to place a graph or say one of those thermometer scale things some where so that all members could see the status of the current fund raising drive. It does not have to contain $$ amounts just a scale of where we are to where you would feel we should be. This way it might help some one visually see that we need more. Just a thought.

Alan

[Alan Young]

And Happy Thanksgiving to All

[Michael Bareno]

I am fairly new to this forum and have been reading all the great ideas and solutions you guys come up with. I just donated what I could. I will likely be buying my first laser in the next couple of months and i think it is important for us to keep supporting this forum, new and old members alike.

[Keith Outten]

Thanks Michael, we appreciate your support this year and welcome to SawMill Creek.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The total number of Active Members this morning at 9:40am is 9,810, twenty nine new members in less than 24 hours.

We are averaging 600 to 900 new posts per day average over the last 30 days.

Less than 8% of our Active Members have made a donation to our fund drive.
.

[Lee DeRaud]

The total number of Active Members this morning at 9:40am is 9,810, twenty nine new members in less than 24 hours.

We are averaging 600 to 900 new posts per day average over the last 30 days.

Less than 8% of our Active Members have made a donation to our fund drive..

Hmmm...

Split the difference and call that 750 posts per day average. I have no idea if the last 30 days are typical, but assuming they are, on any given day, less than 8% of our Active Members contribute content to the Creek.

Probably just a meaningless coincidence, but it's the kind of coincidence that tends to catch my eye.