Applying vinyl to very smooth surfaces

[Scott Shepherd]

Yes, I know, my long run laser job is still running.......

While it's running, I wanted to make up some demo stuff for my vinyl work to hang around here or take with me if I need to. One thing that I did was make a "No Parking" sign with a bunch of extra stuff on it. Something I get asked to now and then.

I've had two problems, glass and pre-painted metal sign blanks. I can do both wet, no problem, but I'm trying to apply vinyl dry more and more now and both of those applications leave me with a truck load of tiny air bubbles in the final product.

I have squeeged until the cows came home and danged if I can apply vinyl to a super slick surface without tiny bubbles under it. Wet, it looks like it was painted on when I'm done. Dry.....not so much.

So, I've reverted to taping it in place, ala hinge method, and then lightly applying application fluid to it, flipping it down, and squeeging it. Comes out very nice.

So, what's the trick for dry on super smooth surfaces with no bubbles?

[Joe Pelonio]

Acrylic is even worse, the glossier the harder to avoid bubbles. The first trick is to always inspect the squeegie and run a fingernail along it to test for nicks. Still, I always work dry except for intricate multi color registration jobs.

After taping don't cut right up to the edge of the lettering. When you hinge it, you want to leave the masking tape at least an inch from the lettering. That way you don't get a row of bubbles from the masking tape when you hit the edge of it.

Last one is harder to describe, but you don't want to let the vinyl hit the substrate until you force it to with the squeegie. Us a glass topped table. If the panel is light in weight, stick it to the table with a rolled up hunk of masking tape under it, or a couple of pieces on 2 ends. Hold the transfer taped vinyl (open end) up at a slight angle and just let it drop while you squeegie back and forth in a motion parallel to the ''hinge", gradually working your way to the open end, but only moving an inch or less at a time.

[Doug Bergstrom]

We do almost everything dry with our laminator. Using the pressure and rubber rollers we have virtually no bubbles. We just produced 60 custome dry erase boards this way with no flaws. Also try using any of the new bubble free vinyls. These cannot be applied wet but it is just about impossible to get a bubble. Since they are all cast vinyls they are worth the extra few dollars per roll.

[Scott Shepherd]

Who's making that stuff Doug? I'm using mostly Oracal, but in some cases (like the one I am speaking of mainly) is one I had to use Avery, Trim Accucut, and Oracal because I had to try and match some pantone colors that no one supplier seemed to cover.

I personally don't like the Trim products or the Avery stuff I have used.

[Joe Pelonio]

Who's making that stuff Doug? I'm using mostly Oracal, but in some cases (like the one I am speaking of mainly) is one I had to use Avery, Trim Accucut, and Oracal because I had to try and match some pantone colors that no one supplier seemed to cover.

I personally don't like the Trim products or the Avery stuff I have used.

I have used mainly Arlon and 3M, but I haven't seen any difference in air bubbling between brands. A laminator is nice for sheeting, but not practical for small signs, and impossible for vehicles or window lettering.

MACtac makes the bubble free, but I thought it was available only in white for large format digital printing (vehicle wraps).

It takes practice, Scott. This one I did today on the aluminum front of the building (dry). What a nice day to be out on a ladder, 65 and sunny.

[Doug Bergstrom]

In the bubble free area, we use oracal, 3m, and avery. We use Mactac for most of our printing and there bubble free works well. If you have a printer you can print and cut the color you need from the white. This works great and last the same if not better when laminated. If you are doing a lot of small signs with vinyl a smaller laminator mounter is worth the money. If you are printing graphics I would reccomend buying a larger unit that can handle more jobs but we use our 60" for mounting everything from small 8"x10" POP displays to 4'x8' signs.

[Larry Bratton]

Yes, I know, my long run laser job is still running.......

While it's running, I wanted to make up some demo stuff for my vinyl work to hang around here or take with me if I need to. One thing that I did was make a "No Parking" sign with a bunch of extra stuff on it. Something I get asked to now and then.

I've had two problems, glass and pre-painted metal sign blanks. I can do both wet, no problem, but I'm trying to apply vinyl dry more and more now and both of those applications leave me with a truck load of tiny air bubbles in the final product.

I have squeeged until the cows came home and danged if I can apply vinyl to a super slick surface without tiny bubbles under it. Wet, it looks like it was painted on when I'm done. Dry.....not so much.

So, I've reverted to taping it in place, ala hinge method, and then lightly applying application fluid to it, flipping it down, and squeeging it. Comes out very nice.

So, what's the trick for dry on super smooth surfaces with no bubbles?

Scott:
I have two laminators. I have a hot laminator-24" that works good for mounting inkjet prints on acrylic. I use some material from USI Laminate that is actually used to make decals. But, I also have a machine made by Daige. It's a 36" wide machine. We use it to stick the prints down to acrylic after they have the adhesive (decal) applied hot. The Daige type cold mounting and laminator would be good for your use. Not too pricey but around $1500 for a 38" machine. http://www.daige.com/quikmount.htm

[Scott Shepherd]

You guys are so far over my head right now....

I don't understand the laminators role in vinyl. I do in vinyl printed graphics, but not in normal vinyl plotter cut shapes and letters.

I think I'm heading to the USSC Sign World Convention at the end of November up in Atlantic City. I plan to spend a good day going over things I've never been exposed to or seen. You guys are giving me a lot of good information that I can look into if I make it up there.

Until then, I'm planning on staying very confused

[Joe Pelonio]

Scott,

Don't worry about it. I have managed to get by 14 years without a laminator, you don't need it for applying vinyl lettering. it's a lot easier to apply vinyl to a board than to a car or truck, and you'll get it down with practice. Yes, some people will use a laminator to apply cut vinyl lettering but it's overkill IMO.

If I need a large sheet, like 4x8 pvc, coro, or acrylic sheeted with vinyl I take it to my digital imaging wholesale guy. I do laser and cut vinyl for him, he prints and laminates for me. I have managed to apply a full 4x8 print on vinyl to a board before, but it's definitely a pain compared to running it through the laminator.

[Scott Shepherd]

I might add that the bubbles I am speaking of are what I would call micro bubbles. I'm not having problems with a 1/8" diameter bubble, but rather super tiny bubbles and a lot of them.