As an author is SMC a waste of time ?

[Don Bullock]

Response to Keith O. and John B.

...Now that I realize that SMC is more about being a “social club” than about real woodworking I can adjust my “bedside manner” and I cross by heart and promise not to promote my new book.

Mark, as an author in other areas, education, cars and dogs, I undestand your frustrations. Unfortunately, whenever we authors share either facts or opinions in our work, someone out there will dispute what we say and how we say it. I remember the battles I had with the editor of my first article. She and I actually worked on it for three years. She'd call me at midnight and talk over the phone for a couple of hours while I worked at my computer making changes. I finally scheduled a trip to meet her face-to-face so we could "finalize" it. Fortunately my subsequent dealings with editors haven't been such a long ordral. I have had others dispute my remarks in subsequent articles or letters to the editor. As an author I often become very posessive with the words I write and others just don't understand that.

I'm very amazed and excited that people with your knowledge and experience are willing to freely express your opinion and share your findings here on Sawmill Creek. For me, someone who is just getting back into woodworking, the information on these forums is much more valuable than any book. Sure, much may be "misinformation," but that can be said of any medium. Just because something is "published" doesn't give it more credibility. I greatly appreciate when people like you step in with facts that dispute some of the "facts or opinions" (myths) that have been carried on over time. I find it very refreshing and it helps me to "make up my own mind" on an issue. I would like to encourage you, as well as other knowledgable woodworkers, to continue helping those of us who aren't as knowledgable on a particular aspect of woodworking or a specific tool. It's people like you who give this place it's credibility. Loosing posts like yours would be a great loss.

BTW -- I did buy your first book when I bought my band saw. My only complaint is that I now have to buy another new book.

[Jason Beam]

... i've started and stopped typing this post for 3 days now ... i don't know what's convinced me to finally post it ...

Mark,

I've watched your DVDs, read your books and met you recently at the AWFS fair in Vegas. In those three venues, you are a completely different person than I see here on SMC. I'm worried that for some reason this place really brings out a side of you that isn't helpful to yourself or those who read what you post.

Your videos, books and other publications position you as a HIGHLY credible source of valuable information. However, on SMC, the very thing you're complaining about brings out a side of you that I really wish I'd never seen. We're all human, and we're all going to think for ourselves. It seems like you aren't fully accepting that fact.

People want to be right; nobody likes to be contradicted. People especially don't like to be contradicted and insulted at the same time. I see many situations where people reply with valid, proven, rock-solid facts that contradicts someone else's statements. Doing so is a tricky line to walk. If you want to avoid a conflict, it doesn't matter how right you are, you have to approach them in such a way that isn't going to tick them off. Someone mentioned Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... you're so much more friendly in your publications, why such a difference on here?

It's really hurting my impression of you to see all the ranting and raving.

If I may be so bold as to offer some advice:

Yes, this place is a GREAT place for you. It may not be for the purpose of dispelling myths in the ways you've gone about it. But where else will you be able to see exactly what information a large chunk of the woodworking community is lacking? Use this place, at least in part, to discover what the misinformation is and WHY it's the prevailing wisdom. Construct your responses as carefully as you would your books and videos. Nobody has to agree with you, they have their own brains.

You only serve to damage your own reputation when you stomp around like this. Let 'em spew their misinformation, you will never stop 'em - it's not within your control.

I wish I'd never seen this side of you, Mark. I'd like to see less of it, myself. If that means leaving, that's really unfortunate. I had the impression that you're bigger than that.

I sure hope this gets taken with the lament i've been feeling for the last few days.

[Ted Calver]

Mark,
There a whole lot of folks out there that can make a band saw hum...maybe some even better than you.....who just haven't had the skill or inclination to write about it. We value your knowledge and respect the fact that you've been able to convert that knowledge into a shareable form that makes you some money. We value the advice of the other folks just as much...even if it is sometimes bad. I'd much rather hear Mark Duginske's opinion as a fellow woodworker and a guy who can make a band saw hum than the opinion of Mark Duginske the author and king of the band saws. Keith called it bedside manner, I call it author ego. Park that at the door and we’ll get along just fine.

[Keith Outten]

Response to Keith O. and John B.

Now that I realize that SMC is more about being a “social club” than about real woodworking I can adjust my “bedside manner” and I cross by heart and promise not to promote my new book.

Mark,

There's that condescending attitude once again. There are over 650,000 posts here and many contain pictures of projects that are truly amazing. I doubt you will live long enough to sit in your chair and view just our current threads and enjoy the talent that is here at The Creek.

The social club aspect is just a nice bonus around here.

I can't believe that your negative comment about so many talented woodworkers here will help your book sales.

.

[Al Willits]

We had a mayor who once said "we need to be sensitive towards our criminals too" we now have the nickname, Murderapolis....

Personally if Mark is a bit abrupt in his commentary, and he's right...ok with me.
I apreceate the fact he takes time to help us understand and improve our hobby, and if he mentions a book so be it.
Unlike the ramblings of people who say their system can do anything under the sun and don't hesitate to come out of the manuf section and spout this in the other sections.
Personal opinion I guess

Al

[Dennis Peacock]

... i've started and stopped typing this post for 3 days now ... i don't know what's convinced me to finally post it ...

Mark,

I've watched your DVDs, read your books and met you recently at the AWFS fair in Vegas. In those three venues, you are a completely different person than I see here on SMC. I'm worried that for some reason this place really brings out a side of you that isn't helpful to yourself or those who read what you post.

Your videos, books and other publications position you as a HIGHLY credible source of valuable information. However, on SMC, the very thing you're complaining about brings out a side of you that I really wish I'd never seen. We're all human, and we're all going to think for ourselves. It seems like you aren't fully accepting that fact.

People want to be right; nobody likes to be contradicted. People especially don't like to be contradicted and insulted at the same time. I see many situations where people reply with valid, proven, rock-solid facts that contradicts someone else's statements. Doing so is a tricky line to walk. If you want to avoid a conflict, it doesn't matter how right you are, you have to approach them in such a way that isn't going to tick them off. Someone mentioned Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... you're so much more friendly in your publications, why such a difference on here?

It's really hurting my impression of you to see all the ranting and raving.

If I may be so bold as to offer some advice:

Yes, this place is a GREAT place for you. It may not be for the purpose of dispelling myths in the ways you've gone about it. But where else will you be able to see exactly what information a large chunk of the woodworking community is lacking? Use this place, at least in part, to discover what the misinformation is and WHY it's the prevailing wisdom. Construct your responses as carefully as you would your books and videos. Nobody has to agree with you, they have their own brains.

You only serve to damage your own reputation when you stomp around like this. Let 'em spew their misinformation, you will never stop 'em - it's not within your control.

I wish I'd never seen this side of you, Mark. I'd like to see less of it, myself. If that means leaving, that's really unfortunate. I had the impression that you're bigger than that.

I sure hope this gets taken with the lament i've been feeling for the last few days.

(moderator hat off and Woodworker hat on)
Very well stated!!!! And THIS is the exact reason why I will never buy another book or video that is put out by Mark.
(woodworker hat off and moderator hat on)

Moderator speak....now, now folks, let's be nice and let's learn to play in the sandbox "together".

[Alan Simpson]

Mark,

There's that condescending attitude once again. There are over 650,000 posts here and many contain pictures of projects that are truly amazing. I doubt you will live long enough to sit in your chair and view just our current threads and enjoy the talent that is here at The Creek.

The social club aspect is just a nice bonus around here.

I can't believe that your negative comment about so many talented woodworkers here will help your book sales.

.

IMHO, I'd have to say that half the posts in this thread, up to and including yours, show a definite "condescending attitude".

edit: And seeing the most recent post by a "moderator", it seems the mob mentality is alive and well here once again. <sigh>

[Robert Pociask]

Mark - Well said.

As an engineer I, too, am tired of "made up facts" ruling the day in technical discussions. It always amazes me both here and elsewhere that those with the least data have the loudest opinions.

Keep up the good work.

[Jim Becker]

Now that I realize that SMC is more about being a “social club” than about real woodworking...

Mark, with all due respect, this statement really is not a fair description of SMC. The membership is very diverse from noobies to woodworking as a hobby through serious and highly skilled pros and no-pros, alike. There is a whole lot of very serious woodworking going on...

I hope you'll take the time to get to know the membership more.

[Donnie Raines]

Evidence as to why I stop visiting this site a few years back.

[Mike Dauphinee]

Evidence as to why I stop visiting this site a few years back.

And you come back for the fireworks?

Guys....you are making a spectacle all over the web....news is that the creek is on fire <shrug>

[Mike Dauphinee]

IMHO, I'd have to say that half the posts in this thread, up to and including yours, show a definite "condescending attitude".

edit: And seeing the most recent post by a "moderator", it seems the mob mentality is alive and well here once again. <sigh>

And the people should have no voice...the one who actually FINANCE this forum? I am confused. Thouroughly confused everytime this comes up...such contradictions on ideals.....The only resolution is the SAME answer...YOU folks PAY and I have all the say. (not me)

Ban me for having an opinion, but we go dance around it EVERY time it comes up and NEVER resolve it.

Is it a community? Or is it an individual letting others play as seen fit?

It CANNOT be both under current conditions.

[Scott Donley]

Good thing for the mods and admin to think about, and take into consideration, as well...

1st., Greg, rather tacky in my opinion, to be posting in this thread using a false name and being an administrator at another woodworking forum. I am sure it would be frowned on if it were to happen on yours.
2nd. My band saw works great and it got that way through the advice of other woodworkers on this forum.I guess being an adult enables me to weed through the good and the bad and pass on what has worked for me.

[Leo Pashea]

(moderator hat off and Woodworker hat on)
Very well stated!!!! And THIS is the exact reason why I will never buy another book or video that is put out by Mark.
(woodworker hat off and moderator hat on)

Moderator speak....now, now folks, let's be nice and let's learn to play in the sandbox "together".

There is probably no need to defend Mark, as he had done well with that himself. Talk about stirring the pot? You can take off or put on which ever hat you choose, but when you post, no matter what you say, you are posting as a moderator. Nice drivel from one that is supposed to be keeping the peace, or so "they" say. Fuel on the fire. Impressive Mr. Peacock, very impressive.

[Ted Boxman]

I have to say that as a newbie I'm going to trust a published author more than Joe Woodworker on a web forum. If I ran a forum I'd do everything that I could to encourage professionals to participate. Unfortunately all I really see are people trying to protect their feelings and their long held beliefs rather than trying to learn.

I understand that there has to be a level of polite discourse in order for information to be imparted but IMO this forum focuses much more on politeness than on information.