As an author is SMC a waste of time ?

[Matt Meiser]

The way I read it there was concern about the way the opinion was presented, not the opinion itself.

[Ben Grunow]

Think of SMC as you would a conversation with a group of woodworkers over coffee and take what you will from each post. It is free advise, often from experts who are giving (not selling or taking years to teach the hard way) you their knowledge for your benefit. No one claims to be writing "facts" in every post, its just advise and help.

I think SMC is one of the most incredible resources and the time and money I have saved due to the knowledge and insight I have gained here is so far in excess of the cost and time it takes to participate that I cant believe anyone would doubt the usefulness of the forum.

Take it easy, read what you want and ignore the rest if it bothers you.

I have enjoyed your bandsaw post BTW.

Ben

[Keith Outten]

Mark.

I hope you will take this as friendly advise.

You may want to adjust your bedside manner a bit. Your knowledge and the facts will speak for themselves, even so there will be those who will disagree with your position. Here at The Creek everyone is standing on the same ground level so discussions generally are much smoother when its eye to eye so to speak.

We are experiencing a Forum wide battle over advertising lately. The problem has become a frenzy of sorts with Members lining up on both sides of the battlefield and our Staff in the middle. The mere mention of your book or anyones commercial affiliation is enough to put lots of keyboards in action. This will pass in time but it is a subject we may have to deal with Community wide soon if for no other reason than to secure some relief for our Moderators caught in the middle.

Remember, for everyone who posts in a thread you participate there are hundreds and ultimately thousands of people that are (or will) be silently reading your words here. You are reaching a larger audience then you know.

.

[John Bailey]

Just to clarify,

I received concerns from members abouts Mark D.'s rhetoric, not his opinion. I moved the thread to the moderator's forum to see what others thought. The feeling was that there was just concern about the rhetoric, not the opinion. I sent a private message to Mark asking him to edit rhetoric in the post, leaving his tensioning information. I told him the information was good stuff, was certainly appropriate and that it was important information for SMC members to have.

I also mentioned to him I had received complaints that he may be promoting his new book. I told him I felt he was trying hard not to promote his book, but, that it is tricky to bring information from his book and not to come across as promoting, at least, to some members. At no time did I ask him not to mention his book, just to be careful.

The thread was moved back, and Mark posted an acceptable version.

I would like to repeat, at no time did I get a complaint about the information Mark provided, or his opinion. At no time was a request made that he not provide the information.

This is the way we'll continue to handle the moderating chores at SMC. Feel free to PM me with any further questions.

Your Humble Moderator,

John

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Wonderful post, Keith. That's the best statement concerning various squabbles I've ever read that you have wrote. Well done.

Take care, Mike

[Mark Kauder]

Over the last 4 years I faded away from SMC for various reasons, but recently came back to test the waters. And I ran straight into the the Bill Grumbine (a friend of mine) mess, and now a published expert whose opinion I value like Mark - I am out of here for good. So long.

Mark Kauder

[Greg Koch]

Remember, for everyone who posts in a thread you participate there are hundreds and ultimately thousands of people that are (or will) be silently reading your words here. You are reaching a larger audience then you know.

Good thing for the mods and admin to think about, and take into consideration, as well...

[Chris McDowell]

Mark I got turned off a while back when I posted on a brand of sliding table saw and had no idea what a fight that would start. I got several Pm encouraging me to stick around and that is what I would suggest to you.
No matter who you are or what you post someone will disagree with it, argue it and some will flat out deny it. Many times these are based on opinions not facts. There are a lot of good people out here and the most of which don't post. I myself post or respond very cautiously trying to decide is it necessary or useful. If I think I can add something relevant to the discussion I will, otherwise I go on.
My best advice would is to stay around and post with your great experience and knowledge. But develop a little thicker skin because you'll need it.

While I am at it. Thanks to all the moderators on this forum. When you get this many people and opinions together, there is bound to be disagreements. You all should be commended for you hard work.

Just my .02
Chris McDowell

[Gregg Feldstone]

Mark, I agree with all of the above who value and appreciate your willingness to share your expertise with us. You once gave me some great advise on a saw which I am very happy with. Thanks!!
I also can't think of a better place for you to gauge the knowledge of other woodworkers, both novice and professional, pertaining to the bandsaw or any other machine or practice in woodworking.
I also don't see what's wrong with you mentioning your books. Lots of people post items for sale here simply to get rid of something they don't want anymore and recover part of their losses. You are not promoting your books because anyone who owns (or wants to own) a bandsaw and has sought written instruction knows your name.
I don't know if any other authors have posted here, but I was overjoyed that you have spent the time to help us. In fact, I have made a few notes about some questions I would like to ask you sometime.
It's truly an honor to have you with us and to be part of your efforts to educate fellow woodworkers on something you feel so strongly about. Maybe part of the discussions here could end up in another book of yours in the future..

[Greg Robbins]

Mark,

One thing about woodworkers is that they'll never let the facts get in the way of their personal feelings.

[Mark Duginske]

Response to Keith O. and John B.

Since I write my post in Word before posting it into SMC I have a copy of what was “erased” by the moderator.

It is from the post -bandsaw tension gauge-crazy idea?- By Kurt Loup. The thread relates to using the dial caliper to measure blade stretch as a means of measuring band saw tension. Of the 30 some people who voiced an “opinion” I was the only one who had actually tested both the feeler gauge technique and the dial caliper technique against the Carter ETG electronic gauge. I did at least 10 test for each technique with very, very widely ranging results suggesting that this is not a valid way to measure band saw tension. In the “erased”, ”moderated” response I outlined the history of the idea in the original FWW article and write about the four wrong assumptions that the idea is based on.

SMC is based on “opinions” and “views” which is fine. I'm the only band saw author who has used a scientific approach and I have spent thousands of dollars buying all of the gauges and testing them. My "views" and “opinions” are the from the research I have done. I can back up everything that I say with test results. Other "experts" "views" are a rehash of faulty information with not scientific testing.

If I do not know something I refer to Mike Cutler and Aaron Gesicki who are technically very versed. Mike is a frequent contributor to SMC and Aaron has as undergraduate and masters degrees in Metallurgical Engineering from the University of Wisconsin in Madison, Aaron Gesicki has been working with engine components his entire career. He’s done research and development at Caterpillar’s Technical Center, process engineering at Marathon Electric, melting and metallurgical production management in General Motors foundries.

After reading the erased response over 5 times I can not find what is “offensive” in the erased thread although I did say the XYZ after market clamp on gauge was "not worth having".

Response to Keith O. “You may want to adjust your bedside manner a bit.” Well, as an R.N. who worked in ICU, Peds and ER I think I know a thing or to about “bedside manner”. If I adjusted my bedside manner any more I would not even be in the room. There is a saying medical field that being nice is good but being technically skilled is a lot better. Well, SMC is very nice.

Response to John B. “I received concerns from members about Mark D.'s rhetoric, not his opinion.” “I also mentioned to him I had received complaints that he may be promoting his new book.”

Keith and John, I appreciate your efforts. I took time to “edit “
the material. This is the second time that one of my post was “erased”. I don’t have the inclination to spend time and energy
writing, especially when it contains technical material, and then have to worry about if it will fit through the SMC “nice” filter.

As I said in the first post on this thread.
“I HAVE LOOKED BACK THROUGH THE VARIOUS SMC BAND SAW POST AND I AM “HORRIFIED” BY THE POOR QUAILTY OF THE INFORMATION PRESENTED. MISINFORMATION (with no scientific testing or accurate technical data) FROM VARIOUS ARTICLES, BOOKS AND CATALOGS ( sales pitch disguised as engineering and technical data) KEEPS BEING REPEATED OVER AND OVER AS FACT.”

I have spent a lot of time and energy on SMC trying to provide real information backed up by actual test (which cost a lot of money and time). There seems to be a lot of effort at SMC to be nice. Wonder bread is nice, it’s just not very nutritional. I guess I’m more of a whole wheat kind of guy.

If you want to read the post that was “erased”, “moderated”, or whatever you want to call it I will send you a copy if you email me a request at markd@airrun.net.

Now that I realize that SMC is more about being a “social club” than about real woodworking I can adjust my “bedside manner” and I cross by heart and promise not to promote my new book.

[Henk Marais]

Mark

Pleaselook at a post I did earlier today under the tool / general section - Thread about router table.

I am a profesional kitchen cabinet maker but in South Africa. I am not sure if you are firmiliar with our history but we were cut off from the rest of the world for a long time and had limited acces to everything.

I use the internet extensively for research, if I deside to take some off these posts as gospel I run the danger to cause damage to my exspensive equipment and this might even sink my company and put 15 people out off income.

Please dont leave rather stay and inform us to the best of your ability.

As I said in my other post, People will make up their own mind.

[John Schreiber]

Now that I realize that SMC is more about being a “social club” than about real woodworking I can adjust my “bedside manner” and I cross by heart and promise not to promote my new book.

I disagree. Sawmill Creek is more about woodworking than it is anything else.

That being said, it is a group of people and social skills are required if the group is going to stay together. Nursing is a blend of competence and compassion. Band saw testing and writing are also a blend of competence and compassion. If you lack either of those skills in either of those fields, you will not be effective.

Good people can engage in honest and spirited debate without stepping out of bounds. Factual information can be transmitted even if others disagree with it based on their own experience. And, I have found that is just where people start to react emotionally and get out of control.

I very much value the factual information which the experts like Mark can present and I hope that they will continue to participate. It is everybody's job to keep the debate clean.

If feelings are running high, perhaps it is a good idea to step back for a while.

[Gary Whitt]

Response to Keith O. and John B.

Now that I realize that SMC is more about being a “social club” than about real woodworking I can adjust my “bedside manner” and I cross by heart and promise not to promote my new book.

[Darren Ford]

I don't know why I always desire to jump into the middle of these things. I've been away for so long, and can't even get to my tools right now, but here goes.

Mark, I have your book. I bought it before I even bought a bandsaw. It has been a tremendous resource, worth way more than the purchase price, and I am looking forward to getting the new version. Have I convinced you that I am a fan? Here is my take after reading that whole tensioner gauge thread to see what the fuss was about.

A guy posts an idea 2 years ago just to bounce it off a few heads, and when the thread is revived he mentions you disagree with his assumptions. I took it to be him admitting his idea is not accepted by probably the most well known expect on the matter, and that we should all take it for what its worth. I thought it was very classy of him to say that. Then you fly in, tell him he is fantasizing, call him a backyard mechanic, and launch a diatribe against all the people who are not as knowledgeable as yourself.

I would like to point out that a lot of excellent work is being done by those misinformed, and in the end, thats all that matters right? Its all good man.

I hope you take this note in the spirit it was given, I am not trying to be mean or confrontational. I think everyone here really appreciates you sharing your knowledge, but please share it and not beat us in the head with it.