As an author is SMC a waste of time ?

[Michael Lutz]

I have learned some about bandsaws from your posts. I would hate to see you go.

I don't have a problem with you mentioning your book on a thread on Bandsaws or if it is at all related to the thread, just like I don't have an issue with Pat warner or Bill Hynton mentioning their book on a router discussion. If you tried to promote your book in a router table thread, I may find it objectionable.

Mike

[Dave Anderson NH]

As a note to folks here. As Mark has quoted, John Bailey was responding to a couple of PM complaints that reported the post. That is his job. John handled the complaint the way most folks would wish a complaint about something they said would be handled, he sent a confidential private message. As moderators, our job is to keep an eye on things and investigate complaints. We are bound by ethics to keep our communications with members about complaints confidential. While I am totally disinterested in the bandsaw subject and respect Mark's expertise and time spent researching in the field, I am disappointed that he chose to air confidential communications. I question whether this thread is a request for opinions or a rhetorical exercise designed to stir the pot and cause controversy.

[Kurt Loup]

For clarity, let me state that I haven't complained about any of the post. In fact, I acknowledged Mark's research and recommended that his post be read for more information about acurately tensioning a bandsaw. Due to Mark's research, I believe using a dial caliper isn't a great idea.

As to the the posts insinuating I stole the idea from someone else, I have no idea how to dispute the accusations other than my word that I did not come across this idea prior to my post. I've read many internet forums and many books and magazines over the years and have yet to come across the idea of using a dial caliper to measure blade tension. The only thing I have seen is a comment on another forum following my original post in 7/05. That particular poster stated that he/she had used that method in the past to tension a bandsaw.

The thread regarding tensioning a blade with a dial caliper doesn't need to be removed on my account. I'm a big boy, my feelings won't be hurt if someone disagrees with me.

Kurt

[John Thompson]

Afternoon Mark...

I have only a few post on this site.. but by no means am I new to "wood butchering" as I got involved in 1972 in days that there was no "fast access" via inter-net and very little written print. Things have changed with the "quanity" of information available, but not necessarily with the "quality" of information, IMO.

Because it is written and printed.. does not make it necessarily correct. Only with research,experience and then "weeding out" the bad info can the real truth be determined and I applaud your efforts in that area. A "spade is a spade" and someone needs to point out what is a spade!

I learned the majority of what I know of BS's from your first book years ago. I will buy your second after 35 years on the WW time-clock just to see what changes you have found over the over-lapping period.

Several months ago another gentleman (I believe I have seen him post here) and I "called out" an author's review in a highly respected WW mag on a new companies 18" BS. "Has some FLAWS" was part of the article that appeared. The author wrote and it was printed that the BS table was .018 off flat with the pin not inserted. He went on to tell of the bad re-saw.

And people were shocked as this had to be the truth coming from such a fine, established mag. But... You don't measure a table with the PIN OUT as the table was ground with the PIN IN. Blatant error by the author and got by the editor.

As it turned out.. the re-saw was done by taking the BS off the crate and "full steam" ahead. On what I have found to be the most micro adjustable BS coming from the Pacific Rim.. the author didn't make an effort to set any key component on the BS that YOU know is required to achieve accurate re-saw!

My question was.. Why is this reviewer being allowed to review something he doesn't obviously have a clue about. The comments were, he had a deadline to meet and just didn't have time to make any adjustments.

"A spade is a spade" and someone with experience with Spades needs to inform the "new to the Spade arena" just what "is" and "isn't a Spade.

So.. being new here I won't plead for you to stick around. But.. I will say that it would benefit many if you did. The truth is out there somewhere and someone that has already found it or hot in the chase needs to give some direction to those that might have been lead down the wrong path seeking a final destination that is beneficial to them for years to come.

Highest regards from deep in the south...

Sarge.. john thompson

[Lee DeRaud]

Given some recent events, I'd expect that if you post here as an author (even if you are not explicitly promoting your books), you're very likely to get pounded on by the Powers-That-Be, inasmuch as the mere mention by you that the books exist can be perceived as "advertising".

And perception trumps reality pretty much every time.

[Bob Childress]

Mark,

Let me take a whack at your question, which is much more complex than people may realize. (BTW, I don't even OWN a bandsaw, so no axe to grind, but I AM an author and an expert on a particular part of manufacturing and distributon, so have some insight into the dilemma.)

In some societies, if you are altruistic enough to save someone's life, you are then responsible for them forever, on the theory that "no good deed goes unpunished." As THE expert on bandsaws, do you want to be the "go to" guy on SMC whenever a question is raised?

["Thanks for all the reponses, fella's, but I'm waiting to see what Mark says before I do anything."]

No, I didn't think so. Too much work, for one thing, and for another thing that's why you wrote the book, right? Got to eat! My suggestion: If you want a public forum, go ahead and build your own web site, where you can control the input and output. Continue to contribute here if you like, but realize that the diversity of views represented is always going to lead to occasional controversy and don't take it personally.

I, for one, hope you stick around for selfish reasons, because I'll no doubt own a band saw some day and want to look up your sage advice. Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.

[NB: But I wouldn't go near a factory automation forum with a ten foot barge pole, for many of the reasons I've outlined. Don't need the stress. ]

[Art Mulder]

Author's Dilemma: As an author is posting on SMC a waste of time ?
...
It has taken me hours to write this, that is hours I did not spend in my shop trying to make a living. I have to wonder if this is a waste of time.

Mark,

I spend time on SMC because I enjoy it. If I didn't, I'd leave.

(warning, tongue in cheek ahead...)

Is it a waste of time? Of course it is. It's a hobby. By definition then, it is a waste of time! But a waste of time can still be fun, and stress relieving, and beneficial...

best,
...art

[Matt Meiser]

You asked whether it is a waste of time to post as an author. Focus on the "as an author" part. If you are posting because you are an author, then yes as you are going to have trouble not crossing the line into commercial territory. If you are posting because you are passionate about the subject then do so.

The information you have to bring to this forum is immense--no one will argue that. People in the hobby know your name--I don't think there is any need to mention your book, which I haven't seen you do. If someone asks a question about it, go ahead and answer it.

But...
Remember here you are just like anyone else. We all have things we firmly believe to be true which contradict what others believe to be true. We can have a friendly discussion about those things or a confrontation. In written communication, much of that comes across in the way things are worded in the absence of body language. Since day 1, this forum has been about being friendly. Regardless of our status, we all have to live by the same rules. We all have to respect other's opinions regardless of whether we think they are right or not.

In the end, who cares--if I'm happy with junk I make with my bandsaw and you are happy with the junk you make with yours, does it really matter?

[Larry Heflin]

Mark,
I appreciate your informed and direct approach to the issue. I would like to hear more. You certainly appear to have earned the right to credibly speak on the topic. Sadly, the reaction to your directness is now characteristic of large segments our culture due to our collective concern for the over sensitive and often litigious feelings of those who choose flattery and a stroking of the emotions, rather than appeal to proven facts, sound reason, and experience. This is typical in far more important issues than woodworking, but it's only natural that we would see it here as well. We all pay the price in the long run.

Be even more creative in getting your information out. Maybe the sensitive, adult tantrum types won't catch on. Stick around (that is until you offend me).

Larry

[Tom Cowie]

Mark if it wasn't for your book and Lonnie Birds book the bandsaw wouldn't be the valued tool that it has become for me.
learning the in's and outs of this machine has been much easier because of experinced woodworkers like yourself and the others that make up SMC.

Tom

[Mark Duginske]

For those of you following this post the MATERIAL IN BOLT PRINT wasw added this to the original post before the last paragraph.

THIS SECTION WAS EDITED OUT BECAUSE IT CONTAINED MATERIAL
FROM A PM TO ME FROM JOHN BAILEY AND MY RESPONSE. I DIDN'T
KNOW THAT I COULD NOT INCLUDE PM MATERIAL. ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS WAS THAT I WAS USING MY POST ON SMC TO PROMOTE MY NEW BOOK.

The pm also dealt with and my response to other complaints. After this experience I think there is room for another forum or website but I have to admit I have lost interest for now in participating.

After the pm that my "thread" got "moved" I got this email from Aaron Gesicki who is a world class metallurgist and one of my consultants.

"I suspect you're beginning to experience the same sort of thing that caused me to abandon almost all website participation - too many people delivering misinformation, and having it believed and reinforced by most of the others..........

[Wilbur Pan]

I HAVE LOOKED BACK THROUGH THE VARIOUS SMC BAND SAW POST AND I AM “HORRIFIED” BY THE POOR QUAILTY OF THE INFORMATION PRESENTED. MISINFORMATION (with no scientific testing or accurate technical data) FROM VARIOUS ARTICLES, BOOKS AND CATALOGS ( sales pitch disguised at engineering and technical data) KEEPS BEING REPEATED OVER AND OVER AS FACT.

[snip]

It has taken me hours to write this, that is hours I did not spend in my shop trying to make a living. I have to wonder if this is a waste of time.

Mark,

I'm not sure exactly what is bothering you about these threads. Is it that people are getting things wrong in their posts? If so, continuing to correct their misunderstandings is probably a better course of action than being horrified at the spread of misinformation.

It would also be good to remember that everyone gets things wrong from time to time. In fact, in your recent article in Woodworker's Journal made the conclusion that setting up a bandsaw to very high tension (>15,000 psi) is unnecessary. This may be a true statement, but the data on the accuracy of the meters on bandsaws and aftermarket tension gauges in the article does not support this conclusion.

The data in this article shows that that aftermarket gauges can be inaccurate, and that the gauges provided on the bandsaw are at least usable for measuring blade tension in the 15,000 psi range. The data in that article does not support the conclusion that therefore there is no reason to tension above 15,000 psi.

So, when people post inaccurate information in a forum setting, it might be a good idea to cut them some slack.

[ray connors]

Mark,
Is SMC a waste of time? Don't know.

I've only posted on one thread so far and its one you listed. Like Wilbur Pan I did not see what there was to get bothered about. I may have missed something.

Band tension is a topic many of us engineer/sawyer/wood worker types like to chew on. If the topic arises again hope you're around to share your observations and data.

Take a break and come back when the snow starts.

Good luck,
Ray

[John Schreiber]

When facts battle against opinions, those with opinions can shout as loud as they like, but the facts will always win in the end.

Mythology and personal belief is hard to break down, and when that mythology is attacked, some will defend their beliefs however they can.

Those of us who prefer the facts are very glad that there are people who are willing to share them. I'm glad Mark Duginske and other real experts are here on the Creek.

[Randy Klein]

For those who are posting that they don't know why Mark is bothered:

His original post, prior to editing by a mod, indicated that someone complained that Mark's opinion, that tension gauges were unnecessary, was offensive. And this was the reason the thread was modded. Of course, I'm paraphrasing since I read the post this morning.