Looking for Someone to Make Sugar Maple Drum Shells

[Brian Weick]

Steve,
in case you are not familiar with my lathe. An Oliver 20C is designed to handle very large turnings and was designed by the Oliver woodworking machine company since 1902 for this specific reason. you are capable of turning with very high precision because it is designed as a pattern lathe with a 2 feed carriage system with a stamped measuring indicator on the carriage and the bed. An Oliver 20C has 24 inches over the bed-ways 22" over the carriage. The bed lengths varied depending on the customers selection and you could even order the lathe without the cast iron bed, for those that preferred a timber designed bed-way, but you lost the option of the carriage by doing so. In David's case, the carriage will not be underneath the material as it will be positioned on the end of the log face and will be fed into the face for a perfect circumference- that being mounted on a 20" face plate. This is the procedure that I would use in this case which is pretty straight forward. I can turn on the outboard side as well if need be, my only limitation is the floor the Oliver rests on ~ currently that is 64" in diameter, due to the floor. If I had a pit for the outside turning it is possible to do 96" but that is as far as I am willing to go. There is a separate bed-way that is used for the outside with a 2 step carriage , I have not yet found the need to even use it as the lathe can handle most of the turnings. In David's case there is a lot of drying time involved with this project more than anything else and you can't rush this job. I am not a big fan of creating a turning out of a solid piece of wood this large in diameter because of cracking in the vertical grain that could arise ~ . If he plans on doing this out of solid wood then the diameter of the material should be no less than 28" to start, then turned down. It is very possible to get all of his drum shells from just one log, depending on the diameters. I also would not want to turn the drum wall thickness less than a 1/2" in diameter on the 22" bass floor shell, the others could probably go a little less but no more than 3/8" to play it safe. this is a doable project in my mind and don't see any problem other than the wood curing and the wall thickness. This is just my opinion Steve, others may feel different about it ~ but keep in mind you can only do what the equipment you have will allow you to do ~ and it is not in the best interest of of your machinery or your safety to push the envelope beyond it's limitations. I know mine and respect my equipment and it's limitations.
Happy Turning
Regards,
Brian
Brian

[Steven Wilson]

Brian, I was looking at the previous link in this thread and it looked like the 20C had roughly a 24" swing (12" from spindle to the ways). If you have 44" or 48" swing inbound then you would definately have the capacity to turn the shells safely. My thought was to rough turn the outside, then drill a hole on the inside to feed a bandsaw blade and then reweld it. I know Northfield makes a 20" bandsaw with lots of capacity under the guides (basically any size you want). Then keep doing it until you have rough shells. After drying I would true up the outsides on the lathe using a custom made expanding chuck on the inside that would use the headstock and tailstock for support. After that I would probably wouldn't use a lathe for the inside but more of a rock tumbler affair to rotate the shell while a router brings the insides to the proper diameter. Not a normal bowl project to be sure

[Brian Weick]

Steve,
, no my turning inboard (total diameter is 24" obw and 22" over the carriage) the outboard is totally different. That band saw idea- yeas i think it would work but I know one thing- I would not attempt that. There is to much that can go wrong with that. Even if you got the cut finished- how true can you really get the shell to be- I just have a feeling that it wouldn't come out close to perfect in circumference- good idea~! just not with such a massive wood project.

[Brian Weick]

Carriage fed ~ turn the outside first between the centers, but the live end mounted on the face plate. then back off the tail stock out of the way, move in the carriage to the desired thickness with a long gouge mounted on the tool post and start feeding into the log 22" allow 1/2" for the wall thickness then move down to 18" feed in down 1/2" for the wall thickness and so on but not to exceed into the face plate staying away 3" from the faceplate , then when that is all finished mount the router on the carriage with a 1/4" fluted bit , turn the lathe on 1.5 hertz feed the router (15,RPM) cut the outside 20" shell first , then remove the router from the carriage and use a separating gouge , pick up the speed to 10 hertz and finish cutting the rest- 1 at a time , stopping to remove each shell as you progress. That is how I would create these drum shells.

[Steven Wilson]

Well, lets say you have a rough turned outer and then left 2-3" of thickness and the inside was rough. After drying I would make an expansion chuck where each leg can be adjusted individually (sort of like a cylinder hone looking thing). So, it wouldn't make any difference how out of whack the inside of shell was, the outside could be set up to run as true as it can be and the whole project would be supported from the head and tailstock. Once the shell is finished warping and the outside is true then you should be able to remove the inside waste fairly easily by a number of methods some of which wouldn't require a lathe (think a large spindle steady looking afair with rollers instead of wheels)

[Brian Weick]

I suppose, But like I said Steve , I only use my equipment for what it was intended for. I have heard of just a few horror stories as far as injuries are concerned. It is actually a little humorous when you think about it- it is a pretty straight forward project, it really is- and then reality sets in- how in the hell am I going to do this -LOL . Well see what David ends up doing. I can't do anything till fall anyways ~ I have a very intricate and detailed luxury master bathroom I am doing now and then I have more work after that in the neighborhood from there neighbors. Not to mention, It is going to take 4-5 months for that wood to dry, be process (turned slightly) dried again and so on. I would do it for him, but - I really don't know why he is going to all this trouble just for a solid drum shell- that's out of my league- I played the pipe organ /organ/ guitar for fun and that's it. Maybe it has something to do with the resonating of the wood--?? got me on that one! Violins~ string instruments- that I can see- According to David,from reading, the sound resonates much better without glue. But they use glue to assemble the pieces of a violin together, the glue matters, but all in all ~ it's still glue. It is the varnish that can either make a violin sing or leave it muffled when played. My thinking is if all the drum manufacturers out there thought that it made that much difference ~ why aren't they all doing that. Think about it? can you imagine the time and money they would save- all they have to do id have a lathe designed "specifically for this process" not to different from mine probably other than the swing diameter. they could make an entire drum set entirely from one cut wood log (species critical of coarse) . I am not in the business of musical instruments , but this has given me a thought about this ~ there is a lot of potential with this- I have just been educated on this as of today by what David has written about his post so I am not informed enough to say weather or not the benefits out-way the usual processes of drum shell making. If so ~ he may be write?
Regards,
Brian

[Pete Kekel]

How about contacting a woodturning professional to get their take on it? I've spent some time with Nick Cook before and he gets odd-ball requests all the time and is constantly coming up with ways to make things work versus figuring out why it can't be done. His web site is nickwoodturner.com, but it would probably be best to try his phone numbers listed on the site.

Good luck with your project.

[Kenneth Hertzog]

would curly maple be about the same have some butt logs that have a hollow hole in the middle that have a DIA of about 24 inches. I'm not interested in doing the job but I may have some wood.
ken

[David Epperson]

I think the the sealing and kiln drying are crucial to keeping the shell from cracking/warping too badly.

Quite a few turners here have had good luck using DNA to speed the drying time without kiln use. A 55 gal drum with some filler bricks might work. How long would you have to soak a piece with 24" grain length to pull that much moisture out?

[Doug Collins]

Don't know anything about drums, but are they always sold as a complete matching set?

Any market for selling the worlds best tom-toms or some of the smaller sizes?

Seems like the conversation has revolved around problems with turning the larger shells, but if you could get the smaller sizes, maybe somebody would be able to take that on with much less cost/risk?

[Grant Wilkinson]

David

While I certainly have neither the skill or the equipment to do what you are asking, I am a friend of a professional wood turner here in Ottawa that may be able to do it.
I noticed on the Luka site that they do not do only maple drums. They also do oak, birch and ash. Are you limiting your drums to only maple?
If Mike can do this and is interested, I assume that you can and will provide him with your business plan so that he knows that you are serious and capable of making a go of this. You are asking the turner to make a large investment in time and money, and I'm sure that you are not expecting that to be done of faith.
To the others who have replied, the Luka site says that their tom and floor toms have 1/4" walls, the bass has 3/8". The snares range from 1/4" "with integrated reinforcing hoops" to 2". Quite the range.
I also saw that the pics that you supplied in your original post seem to have been taken from the Luka site. You may want to be careful there.

[Brian Weick]

I read this article about Drum Art Snare Drums And Drumsticks http://www.harmony-central.com/artic...02_newnote.htm
They make theirs using stave's glued together and they claim that the resonating is in the wood and I have to say that I would concur with that.A iuka percussion 5 piece solid wood drum set start at $4,750 -I am not to sure you are aware of the costs involved with having these type of drums produced
Brian

[David Loewen]

Hey Everyone, just got in... and wow, quite the stir this post has created. Let me try and tackle some of this. perhaps the best place to begin is to respond to the previous post.

Grant, I did not know this was as difficult of a process as everyone is making it out to be. I know that there are 3 other drum companies in the world doing this - and that's the point, they are doing it! I don't have a stash of cash to invest in a C20 or some other crazy lathe, and that's why I posted here. I was hoping that I might find some one that had the necessary tools to bang out several shells. I have never said that I wanted to dominate the world of musical instruments, and so no, I don't have a business plan. I wanted to make one kit, and then two, and then three... I know there is a market for these kinds of drums, for sure there is. And since the process is difficult, those players who don't have an endorsement deal, and want quality drums are trying one ply steambent shells, segmented shells, and stave shells. They all have something good about them, but the truth is, none of them can compare toanally to a drum shell crafted out of a solid shell that has no stress on the wood from bending, and no glue - which most certainly is a tone inhibitor.

Violins use glue because they have to - you want to make a million dollars in a hurry - start crafting violins out of a solid piece of wood. They don't exist because of the narrow opening in them. You can't do it any other way than to glue it together.

I know that what I am asking is difficult and will cost more than a typical shell, those are just a given. But I am a hopeless entrepreneur who loves building drums and can't help but see an opportunity here.

Now regarding the pictures that I posted. Of course they are from the Luka site. If there are only three companies in the whole world doing solid shell drums, and Luka is the only one doing solid shell DRUM SETS, doesn't it make sense that I would borrow a couple of pics from their site to show you the concept? A picture is worth a thousand words, and words can sometimes hardly hold their own. Who hasn't done it?

Also, I don't want to stay with Maple, not at all. After I can establish a relationship with someone, I will get a website up and advertise custom drums - that is with any wood I can get my hands on. I want to also offer Maple wood hoops (instead of standard aluminum or cast hoops) in Hickory, Cocobollo, or whatever. The three most common flavors of drums though are Maple (nice tones/very warm sound), Birch (naturally eq'd sound - nice highs), and Mahagony (deep low tones). I'd like to be able to give the customer any species of wood they want on any drum. The thing is though, that of the three most desireable woods, Maple is the preffered, and most Drummers want it. So, that's where I will start.

I have heard from a couple of you that you think this can be done, and you are considering it. Thank you, I appreciate it. If anyone else hasn't spoken up yet but needs to, please get in touch with me. Quite honestly though, I don't have 5k to give you for a set-up cost. I am willing to work with you only if you have what it would take to do this already. I need you to be incredibly capable with your tools, and be alright if I don't make you rich overnight.

[Dick Strauss]

David,
Another one of the big "gotchas" other than those already mentioned is the depth of cut. Bowls usually don't go deeper than 6" or so. We get 6" of depth by placing our tool rest in the center hollowed area as we go deeper. If you want to cut multiple blanks from one log, you can't do it this way. You can get mulitple cores using a straight coring tool like the Oneway Easy-Core system (or similar from KM etc). None of these systems will allow for coring something that deep. A typical deep hollowing rig might be an option except that they use solid 3/4" steel rod as the cutting tool holder that isn't good for more than 12". Your floor toms and bass drums would require hollowing or cutting a piece twice this depth if I understand you correctly.

So you need a $5-10k lathe, ~$2k in hauling and handling upgrades, and a superduty custom deep hollowing rig ($1k if designed and welded yourself). Can you say "kaching kaching" before a turner even gets going? This doesn't include the other custom tools you'd need to make such an item. If you are serious about this endeavor, you should be willing to pay for all of the upgrades and make arrangements for logs to be delivered up front before any work begins.

I wish you well,
Dick

[Rex Guinn]

You might want to call Dave Lancaster up in Maine I would bet he could turn what you wanted. I saw him turn at the LAW meeting in Louisville, KY in March.
Good Luck