OT: Gas Prices

[Dave Crabbs]

I own a Powerstroke diesel 4X4 pick-up. Diesel prices in my area are between 1.75-1.85. Go figure, diesel cost more than 87 octane gas. Last time I filled my 38gal. tank it cost $51 but then I get 700 miles from a tank of fuel.
Dave

[John M. Cioffi]

GAS....or liquid Gold prices!

Up Here in the Boston area they are between $1.60 & $1.70 for the cheeeeeeeeep stuff.
I'm sure glad I don't have to use the "High-Grade" stuff!!!
Now they're saying all the Utilities are jumping up again,as well....

Guess whose getting my raise,this year.

[Richard Brown]

I think that here in California that the prices are much higher than the rest of the country. I have been using either Union or ARCO and they are $1.87 the last time I filled up. They will most likly be up before I gas up again. I hope they drop before June as a 3000 mile trip that I plan to take will cost me that arm and leg.

[Carl Eyman]

I heard an economist on NPR late last week address the question of oil company "gouging". He said the trouble with saying it is it isn't true. Gasoline has increased less than the general rate of inflation since the 1950's, he says. Indeed, the lowest price for gasoline I ever remember was 10 for a $1.00 about 1935. If your tank wouldn't hold 10 gals. it was $0.11 per gallon. The social security cost of living charts indicate prices have risen about 15x since then; so our economist friend seems to be pretty much right on track. Does this mean I feel better at the gas pump? NO WAY.

[John Miliunas]

Originally posted by Carl Eyman
I heard an economist on NPR late last week address the question of oil company "gouging". He said the trouble with saying it is it isn't true. Gasoline has increased less than the general rate of inflation since the 1950's, he says. Indeed, the lowest price for gasoline I ever remember was 10 for a $1.00 about 1935. If your tank wouldn't hold 10 gals. it was $0.11 per gallon. The social security cost of living charts indicate prices have risen about 15x since then; so our economist friend seems to be pretty much right on track. Does this mean I feel better at the gas pump? NO WAY.

In a way, I can see what your friend is saying, but I feel there's a lot to be said on the other half of that argument. For one, the transportation, processing and delivery of the product has vastly improved and much more efficient. As the need over the years has risen, the efficiency of their operations has increased proportionally, if not more so. The other part which really torques me is when there's even "talk" of the prices going up, a large majority of the stations immediately hike their pump prices, often with rather large jumps upward. BUT, when there is equal talk of the supply being larger than the demand, the prices take much, much longer to drop back down! Hmmmm....Somehow this sounds as though they are indeed maximizing their profits at the public's expense. I guess I could go on, especially after the great gas-rationing thing back in the late 70's. I knew a guy who worked for one of the large oil companies and he told me many, many stories, which he himself had witnessed, that very clearly showed the "shortages" to have been manufactured to gain profits. That in itself is long story....

[PeterTorresani]

Somehow this sounds as though they are indeed maximizing their profits at the public's expense

I don't quite understand the general rant about oil companies and/or gas stations maximizing their profits. This is something that every business tries to do. If a competitor can make a living selling the same thing for less, he will. CAPITALISM

The mark up you pay on power tools is most likely higher than what the corner station gets for gas. Retail clothing is typically marked up 300% You don't even want to know how much Warlmart marks up the stuff that they sell.

An example of how hypocritical some people get on this subject is one of the state legislatures here in MN. A year ago he was screaming and hollering for the State Attorney General to investigate oil company price gouging. This year he is fighting to maintain the state subsidies for ethanol which make me pay for gas whether I use it or not.

I could go on forever (most friends say I do ), but I'll do my part in keeping this board non-political

[Peter DeFazio]

Got this in my email the other day.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Makes you think....

You Think A Gallon Of Gas Is Expensive?

Makes one think, and puts things in perspective.

Diet Snapple 16 oz $1.29 ......... $10.32 per gallon
Lipton Ice Tea 16 oz $1.19.........$ 9.52 per gallon
Gatorade 20 oz $1.59 .................$10.17 per gallon
Ocean Spray 16 oz $1.25 ......... $10 .00 per gallon
Brake Fluid 12 oz $3.15 ............ $33.60 per gallon
Vick's Nyquil 6 oz $8.35 ............ $178.13 per gallon
Pepto Bismol 4 oz $3.85 ........... $123.20 per gallon
Whiteout 7 oz $1.39 ............... $25.42 per gallon
Scope 1.5 oz $0.99 ................... $84.48 per gallon

and this is the REAL KICKER......
Evian water 9 oz for $1.49 ........ $21.19 per gallon.
$21.19 FOR WATER! ....and the buyers don't even know the source.

So, the next time you're at the pump, be glad your car doesn't
run on water, Scope, or Whiteout, or Heaven forbid....
PEPTO BISMOL or NYQUIL!!!!

[James Clark]

I live in Central Michigan and the price of unleaded regular ranges between $1.69 and $1.79 I talked to a friend of mine that opperates a B&P station he told me that his boss's sent a message and let them know by spring gas would probably be $2.00 TO $2.50 a gal. They also said that by fall we could see $3.00 gal. As we were talking he mentioned about peolpe with SUV's and how he would hate to have to buy gas for one and then it dawned on me I asked him if he could remember how much the price of gas was a few years ago when the big fad of SUV's came out and all the car lots were begging peolpe to buy one he said he thought it was the cheapest that it had been since the early 70's at about $.65-$.80 per gal then he asked me why I told him that I'd just seen a show about cars that get many, many miles to the gallon do in part to it running on battery power some of the time.
The anouncer asked if peolpe would be willing to sacrifice their roomy SUV'S and their bigger cars for gas milage the reply was, If the price of petroleum gets so high that peolpe can't realistically afford to drive the big automobiles then they will have to go to the higher miles per gallon cars. Then like the announcer said the big Suv's won't be worth squat.
Des this all seem like a bit of a coincidence?????
Maybe or maybe not....................
Sincerely,
Jim Clark

[John Miliunas]

I'm really starting to think it's a lose/lose proposition. Kripes, when there's a big demand (summer, for instance) they raise the price to supposedly keep up with that demand. Ah, but then people start buying econoboxes and car pooling and they say they need to keep the prices up, because now they're not selling enough to keep it profitable.

No arguments about our dependence on fossil fuels and I, for one, don't cherish the thought of driving an underpowered hybrid, which will now not only require engine and transmission maintenance, but real, real expensive battery replacement, as well. And I can only imagine the expense of the electronic brains (modules) which control everything. In the final analogy, we may indeed save on fuel costs, but what's the trade-off?

I know there's some lady out there who has launched some campaign against SUV's and the such. Even though some have their proper place and use, I can see where she's coming from. I do a 30+ mile commute to and from work daily. My car gets just under 29mpg. At the same time, I see any number of BIG SUV's and trucks going the same or greater distance daily. I'm talking stuff like the huge Excursions, Suburbans and crew cab F150's, Silverado's and Ram's. Wouldn't be that bad, but 95% of them are cruising down the road with just the driver! No, not with a load in back or half the kid's hockey team, but empty. Then we wonder why we have such a dependence on oil and, how in reality, they really do have us right by the......Well, you know. And, I'm still not at all convinced that, with all the powerhouse brains we have in this country, we can't come up with a more viable alternative to the internal combustion engine running on fossil fuels. Somehow I think that the oil companies themselves may have something to do with that. Just MHO.....

End of rant.

[Jim DeLaney]

Just filled up the other car this morning, and regular is up to $2.079! $2.199 for mid and $2.299 for high test (Chevron).

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by John Miliunas

I know there's some lady out there who has launched some campaign against SUV's and the such. Even though some have their proper place and use, I can see where she's coming from. I do a 30+ mile commute to and from work daily. My car gets just under 29mpg. At the same time, I see any number of BIG SUV's and trucks going the same or greater distance daily. I'm talking stuff like the huge Excursions, Suburbans and crew cab F150's, Silverado's and Ram's. Wouldn't be that bad, but 95% of them are cruising down the road with just the driver! No, not with a load in back or half the kid's hockey team, but empty.

End of rant.

Don't forget this aspect: All those individuals driving SUVs and trucks with no load create demand for anything truck-based, thereby driving up the price for those of us who actually use a truck for work. My 90 Ford F150 with 135K on it will have to do. Can't afford a $35k truck or a $6-700/mo payment.

Jason

P.S. I also think we are getting dangerously close to political with this thread, so let's be careful. There might be an oil exec WW'er lurking at the Creek.

P.P.S. The "campaigner" is Arianna Huffington. She's against SUVs for a reason that doesn't belong here.

[John Miliunas]

Good points on numerous levels. Yeah, I think we should be careful of stepping on someone's toes and no, we don't want to go the route of Huffington. That could get ugly!

The point you make about driving the costs of those vehicles up is poignant one. Seems that SUV's and real big trucks have taken over the yuppie's Beamers and 'Cedes. Then, there's guys like yourself and many others in similar situations, that can't afford a truck they honestly use to work out of. I'll bet that a real large percentage of those 4x4's, even with their fancy "Off Road" packages, rarely see a gravel road, much less any terrain rougher than that. Again, I have nothing against people owning and driving such vehicles, but it just torques me when you see so many of them traveling back and forth from office jobs with only one person in them. Heck, I've got a '91 S-10, too, but that thing sits in the shed until I need to do a lumber run or something of that nature. It'll be interesting to see how the whole thing washes.

[Howard Norman]

Filled the Jeep up again last night at Costco. $1.739 for regular unleaded. Gas ain't going get cheap anytime soon.

Howard

[Jim Talbert]

Prices here are $1.68 for regular unleaded. Our pickup and delivery driver goes through a tank of gas a day and it sure has put a crunch on daily exspenses.
Jim Talbert
Cardinal Tool Sharpening
www.cardinaltool.com

[John Sanford]

Some observations:

Gas rationing - early and mid 70s, not late 70s.

gas prices - the market DOES set them. Every single investigation into price fixing by "big oil" has been a bust, at least since the breakup of Standard Oil (Rockefeller) in the early part of the LAST century. This includes the investigations conducted by the most rabid anti-Oil types. Unfortunately, WE cannot generally realign our economic structures as rapidly as gas prices fluctuate. Want a shorter commute so you spend less on gas? Sell your house and move closer in. Oh, it'll take you how long to sell the house, find a new one, etc etc....

Price gouging - nobody is forcing you to buy gas. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it. That's the essence of the free market.

Foreign Oil dependency - so what? We're "dependent" on chinese toys too. What's frequently overlooked is the simple fact that EVERY Middle Eastern oil producing company is dependent on imported FOOD. Which means that in a dependency pissing match, they lose. Also, unlike our toy dependency, the proportion of oil that we import from the ME has been falling for the last few decades.

Most of us on this board probably ARE "Big Oil" Whether through direct stock ownership, or indirectly through mutual funds, 401Ks, pensions, etc, you've likely got some stake in those companies.

Mind you, I understand the unpleasantness. Over the course of the last 5 months, I've seen my income fall, my commute length triple, and my fixed expenses increase. All the above are relatively involuntary. Last thing I need is rocketing gas prices.

All I can say is, even with the current downsides, my situation is still a heckuva lot better than 99% of the people in this world. So, while I may not be able to fill my tank up as cheaply as I did before, I still have the tank, and I can still fill it. Which means that, as the faux Jamaican skaters and snowboarders will say "its all good brah".

Guys, the tank ain't half empty, its still a lot more than half full.