general vs. general international.

["Jason Belous"]

The time has come to replace some of the shop tools due to age and condition. My question is as follows I am a pretty big powermatic man. Most of the equipment other than some old iron is all powermatic but for some reason i've taken a liking to general tools lately. My question is since i've got alot of good feed back from some tradesmen on the brand "general" it's self, what is the deal with "general International"? Is this a cheaper line that would not have been made in canada? I know the price is lower so some options are missing. So the big question is should I stay away from the general international or am I still getting a pretty decent product say compariable to a jet? Any general info on this line would be great, where it's made, quality comparison, etc.
Thanks,
Jason.

[scott spencer]

Hi Jason - I think you've got the GI line accurately assessed. It's General's foreign made line...most made in Taiwan and possibly China. Not quite at the level of the Canadian made General line, but certainly competitive with Jet, Grizzly, some PM, Shop Fox, etc.

[Roy Harding]

"General" machines are made in Canada. They are well made, well machined, and quality tools.

"General International" are poorly made, abominably machined, and garbage tools. They are, for the most part, made in China.

Even my wife (who knows absolutely nothing about tools) was able to spot the difference at a tool show we attended together. There were two jointers side by side - one a General, and the other a General International. The first thing she picked up on was the price difference (General tools command a healthy price tag - General International not so much). Then she noticed that the General jointer had a cast iron frame and table - the General International was stamped steel. And the list went on.

Although some accountant somewhere probably thinks that adding the "General International" brand to their product line makes sense (getting the reputation of General tools to reflect upon a sub-standard line), I think General made a terrible mistake. Too many (hobbyist type) people that I know bought a General International piece of garbage, thinking it was a "General" - a brand I highly recommend.

My advice?? Stay far away from General International. General, on the other hand, makes fine machines, which hold their own with anything else I can think of, including Powermatic, Grizzly, and the like.

[Jim Hager]

I have two of the GI machines and I want to respectfully disagree with what has been said about them being lower quality. In fact the GI drum sander I have is a great machine, I had a Grizzly drum sander and that for sure was a piece of stuff not needing to be mentioned. I never ever was so badly dissappointed with a machine in my life.

When I got my GI sander I had already had some experience with the GI line when I bought a 89" horizontal belt sander. It is not the Lexus of the sanders but in my opinion it is better hands down than any of the Grizzly stuff I've seen. It in fact is the same machine offered by Jet and Powermatic. I ordered the drum sander sight unseen and I have been very pleased with it. By the way I produce somewhere around 250 rp red oak or maple doors each month, and the drum sander is used as a major part of the production.

[Mike Furness]

General International is made in Taiwan not China.Quality is not the same as general,But some of it is not bad. Some Schools are using the G.I. machines in Canada and they are holding up very well.
Here's a little Relish to go along with the Mustard and Mayo.

[Roy Harding]

Jim:

No disrespect intended - as I've said in other threads it's not the brand name that matters - it's what you get for the price, and whether it will do the job intended or not.

Heck - I've got some Black and Decker (and Canadian Tire and Jobmate) stuff that does the job I need them to do admirably - they're all low demand, occasional use tools.

I did not mean to maligne GI - if they're what you're after, that's great. I DID mean to differentiate between GI and General - the two are of entirely different quality.

I'm in a professional setting - I can't afford to have my main tools (including my TS) be anything less than 100% accurate and reliable. I forget sometimes that many here are hobbyists who use (and abuse) their machines much less than I do.

You are right - if the GI does the job for which it is intended, for a price you can handle, then, by definition, it is a "good" tool.


Roy

[Roy Harding]

General International is made in Taiwan not China.Quality is not the same as general,But some of it is not bad. Some Schools are using the G.I. machines in Canada and they are holding up very well.

Sorry Mike - but I strongly disagree with "holding up very well" in a school setting. As far as Taiwan/China goes - I believe you are correct, and I was mistaken when I said China earlier.

I last attended a school in 2005 - NAIT (Northern Alberta Institute of Technology) in Edmonton, Ab.

There were, indeed, some GI tools there (TS and bandsaws that I recall off the top of my head) - and the technicians employed by the school were constantly fixing or "tweaking" them. I became close friends with a couple of the "techs" - who did not like them. They did not (in the tech's opinions) stand up well to the abuse that is handed out in a school environment. The more experienced students also steered clear of them whenever possible - too many "quircks" and "irregularities".

On the other hand - as I said in a different message on this thread - if they meet your purpose, and fit your budget - great. I doubt that anybody on this board would abuse their tools to the extent that students at a technical school do. Single user tools tend to be better maintained, and used more "gently" than tools which exist in an industrial setting.

I STILL think that General made a mistake using the "General" name in a lower quality line - the confusion between the two brands can lead some to sorrowful decisions.


Roy

[John Gornall]

I don't think any General International Jointer has a "stamped steel" frame and table - mine doesn't.

I chose mine because the tables and fence had superior machining to other jointers in it's price range.

No, it's not a top of the line Canadian made General but the General International sure isn't junk.

Have a look for "stamped steel" which you won't find here:

http://www.general.ca/pagetitre/ang/jointers.html

["Jason Belous"]

Thank you for your passionate responses. I did not mean to start a brand war, here at all. Let me state that I do run a professional production shop. We house alot of 3 phase equipment so I am definantly after quality over quanity when it comes to tools. However I was very unfamiliar with the brand "General" in general. So after hearing some good stuff about "general" I started researching the company and could not figure out why the company was divided, after all a general international can still run you as much as a jet, or delta. We all have our personal tool choices and loyalties, I myself would never buy anything from harbor freight or sears, and yet a huge percentage of woodworkers here strictly buy their. Lets keep in mind that we all do woodworking for the love of the craft and for no reason other and that is what is great about the trade, so when someone belittles another tool brand they are just voicing their opinion, after all, someone telling me that they think something is crap actualy really does help me, and someone coming to the defense of that tool also helps me. Thank you for all of your opinions and experiences.
I will probably stick with powermatic due to the fact that it is a production shop and we do tear up some tools, but I would also probably recommend general international to a small scale woodworker who wanted to stay in a budget, probably even over grizzly, bears scare me, no need to defend your green machines.

[Kent E. Matthew]

Wow, this might explain my recent encounter. I ran across what I thought was a Gereral cabinet saw for 800 dollars. Could that have been a GI saw?

[Art Mulder]

... I will probably stick with powermatic due to the fact that it is a production shop and we do tear up some tools, ...

Excuse me, but isn't Powermatic now also building their tools overseas?
(or is it only some of their lines?)

I thought that General was the only North American tool company that still manufactured their tools in North America? Delta, Jet, General International, Ryobi, etc etc are all selling imported tools now.

And one final point on the General International tools. The GI saws are sold with a General fence. (Yes, built in Canada). To me, on a table saw, the fence is one of the most important parts, and on the GI saws the fence is the same fence that you get with a General 650 cabinet saw.

Wow, this might explain my recent encounter. I ran across what I thought was a Gereral cabinet saw for 800 dollars. Could that have been a GI saw?

GI saws are clearly marked as such. You can see the word "international" on their name plate.

[Benjimin Young]

I have a GI table saw and I have been happy with it, a good comprimise between what I could affoard and what I dreamed of.

[Steve Evans]

Kent

If it was used it may have been a General. I bought a used one for not much more than that in almost new condition.

Steve

["Jason Belous"]

CANADIAN FLAG MEAND GENERAL
NO CANADIAN FLAG MEANS GENERAL INTERNATIONAL.

I have no problem with products made overseas, I could care less.
After all I was made overseas. Like I said everyones has a brand they love, and to that individual it is the best brand in the world. Just like you should always believe that your wife is the hottest girl in the world. Support what you support. Thats all.

[Luciano Burtini]

Jason

At the risk of starting an even bigger 'war', you will be more than happy with the General brand in any production environment. It is industrial grade equipment and will stand up to as much or more than the Powermatic, etc.

I would equate the General International to the Grizzly, Jet, and even the newer Deltas (sorry Unisaw loyalists). Actually, to clarify, the GI equipment is meant to compete in the marketplace with this equipment, but if you compare I think you will see that the GI equipment is as good as and often better than the other imported equipment.

The reason they had to go to a GI brand is simple, take for example the 8" jointer - General Cdn $3199 & GI $1899. The GI also has a lot of very nice features for $1300 less. Most people will not pay this much of a premium for a small/home shop.

Depending on the actual machine and what you expect from it, you may be happy with either brand. The General being the best made North American product, but the GI, even though it is imported is, for the most part, quite nice (there are some exceptions). Look carefully at the machines you are comparing and the level of quality shows through pretty quickly.

<rant>I've said it before but it bears repeating, the Chiwanese factories are often capable of building very nice equipment, but the market is for the stuff they are producing. In other words, when we stop buying their junk, they will stop producing it.</rant>

Just something to think about.

from a very happy General owner.....