general vs. general international.

[luc gendron]

I teach woodworking at high school level in Ottawa Canada. We have two General machines (the canadian made). Both are at least 30 years old. One planer, 15'' and one 8'' jointer. Lately I've been pondering replacing the jointer as it has become noisy and the safety guard on it is defective. I've compared both General and General Int. The price difference is about 1500$CAD. Of course the school board wants to go with the cheaper version. I just don't think that the plastic switches and adjutement knobs will last, especially with a bunch of kids using them. (at least 50 teenage kids, on a daily basis, 200 days a year!). As for the planer, what a workhorse! Sees plenty of wood, works wonderfully even after all these years of abuse! Lately had to replace a gear on it, no problem called General Canada, had the gear in about a week. Todays General planer and jointer look just the same as my 30 year old ones...This says alot about the quality of the tool.

[Glen Gunderson]

Excuse me, but isn't Powermatic now also building their tools overseas?
(or is it only some of their lines?)

Yep. They used to be made in Tennessee, but are now made in various overseas factories alongside every other import brand. That's not to say that they can't be of higher quality than other imports, but people shouldn't kid themselves by holding PM tools in a category of their own, as they are now just one of many import brands, albeit one with an extremely proud history.

GI saws are clearly marked as such. You can see the word "international" on their name plate.

I think it says a lot about a company that will clearly designate a product's place of origin via it's name brand. When Powermatic and Delta began to produce products overseas it was not clear to most people which items were made where, and some people still don't seem to realize that they're not American made anymore because the companies seem to like to disguise where they are made in their promotions. I think General deserves kudos for clearly differentiating between their products made in NA and those made overseas.

Back to the original topic, General International tools are generally considered some of the best imported tools out there. They may be the odd lemon, but I've heard almost nothing negative about them from people who actually own them. That said, they are what they are. They are made overseas and they are sold at a discount.

As is often the case these days with inconsistent manufacturing, for a more accurate opinion, you might want to take it on a machine by machine basis and seek opinions based on specific models. Brand names really mean very little nowadays and blanket statements about a company are often inaccurate because different models of machines made under the same brand are often of wildly varying quality.

[Edwin Dodds]

Glen - good point you make about a North American company not trying to hide where it's products are actually made.
General is indeed made in Canada, in Drummondville, Quebec; General International is made overseas. One reason for the big difference in price between the two is that the General machines use a lot of Meehanite castings (www.meehanite.com). Meehanite castings are superior in their make-up, quality control is better, and only certain foundrys are licensed to produce it. My understanding is that General gets their meehanite castings from a licensed foundry, (Belgen) also in Drummondville.
I have found the General International products to be of similiar quality, give or take, to the other overseas products being made for Powermatic, Jet, Delta, etc.

[Kent E. Matthew]

CANADIAN FLAG MEAND GENERAL
NO CANADIAN FLAG MEANS GENERAL INTERNATIONAL.

I have no problem with products made overseas, I could care less.
After all I was made overseas. Like I said everyones has a brand they love, and to that individual it is the best brand in the world. Just like you should always believe that your wife is the hottest girl in the world. Support what you support. Thats all.

Okay I remember seeing the red maple leaf on this saw. So it was a Canadian General. Wow, what a great price.

[Luciano Burtini]

I teach woodworking at high school level in Ottawa Canada. We have two General machines (the canadian made). Both are at least 30 years old. One planer, 15'' and one 8'' jointer. Lately I've been pondering replacing the jointer as it has become noisy and the safety guard on it is defective.

Let me know when & where I can get the jointer!!!! I've been looking for a nice little 8" jointer.....

[Bruce Benjamin]

Hmmm...Roy, I don't think you could've maligned GI much more unless you used some four letter words so your quote below is pretty hard to swallow. "General International are poorly made, abominably machined, and garbage tools. They are, for the most part, made in China." Didn't mean to malign??? You're kidding, right?
That being said, I don't take offense to what you said and I know you're wrong.

I can't speak for the rest of the GI line but I've had the GI contractor saw for several years now and it's at least as good as any other contractor saw available. It's durable and accurate and I can't really think of anything that I could complain about of any significance. I've used a few other table saws over the years, both cabinet and contractor. And I've seen a bunch more. There are better table saws out there but I doubt that there's a better contractor saw and at least one magazine review rated it at number one. I got it at a very competitive price, it came with an excellent B'-Clone fence, (made in Canada) and even the miter gauge is pretty good when compared to any other stock gauge on any saw I've ever seen. Still not as good as an aftermarket gauge though. I don't even have a problem with the stock splitter and blade guard. All of this being said, I don't use it much anymore because I use my EZ Smart for most cuts, but when I do flip the switch it performs perfectly.

GI has sold a ton of these saws so I really don't understand how you came to your extreme conclusion. Oh well, everyone's got an opinion...Etc, etc.

Bruce

Jim:
I did not mean to maligne GI - if they're what you're after, that's great. I DID mean to differentiate between GI and General - the two are of entirely different quality.
Roy

[Randy Cooper]

Hi,

I have the GI model 260 cabinet saw and am very pleased with it. It seems to be well made.

Randy

[Paul Zoske]

I have the General International Deluxe Builders Saw with the Canadian built fence. I am very pleased with it. It's a well made piece of machinery and it's no coincidence that it won editor's choice, readers choice, and best value choice from Taunton's Tool Guide.

Yes General is better.

[Brad Ridgway]

ditto on the GI saw. I bought the left tilt with the long rails and forementioned fence last year..

I probably went overboard buying the TS Aligner, but i had to realign the trunnion to the slots by quite a big margin (my burn marks aren't gone but way better, i slope the fence a few thousanths of an inch away from the blade). Only other beefs are that the guard sucks and i can't seem to get the wings aligned dead flat, but i think all of these remaining issues may be may be more my lack of patience/tune up skills than a poor reflection of the quality of the saw.

Look for the reviews of this saw on Epinions as well as the dedicated wood forums (plus the infamous Fine Woodworking's 2003 article), there are alot of happy people with this saw and they go int much detail (the latest on the contractor is by yours truely). For the $750 pricetag, i'm satisfied short of buying the 66, i did the best with funds available.

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...ctor_Table_Saw

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...inet_Table_Saw

-brad

[scott spencer]

Glen - good point you make about a North American company not trying to hide where it's products are actually made.
General is indeed made in Canada, in Drummondville, Quebec; General International is made overseas. One reason for the big difference in price between the two is that the General machines use a lot of Meehanite castings (www.meehanite.com). Meehanite castings are superior in their make-up, quality control is better, and only certain foundrys are licensed to produce it. My understanding is that General gets their meehanite castings from a licensed foundry, (Belgen) also in Drummondville.
I have found the General International products to be of similiar quality, give or take, to the other overseas products being made for Powermatic, Jet, Delta, etc.

I've always thought it was simple and classy of General to differentiate between the two lines...something Delta and PM don't do as clearly.

As far as GI quality goes, they are indeed very competitive with other Asian made machines. The countries are origin are in a state of transition, many going from Taiwan to China, but AFAIK, the GI contractor saw comes from the same factory as the PM, Bridgewood, Grizzly, Woodtek and others in Taiwan. The GI jointer comes from the same factory as the older Grizzlies, older Jet, BW, Sunhill, and Woodtek in Taiwan. So if GI's build quality is as horrible as reported, so are most other Asian made machines. While they may not be world class, I think the sheer numbers of satisfied customers are sufficient testimonial that they are made well enough for many applications.

http://www.epinions.com/GI 50-185 contractor saw - best in class

[Bruce Benjamin]

So it's settled then? Post #3 was pretty far from the truth. Roy, what made you say such things?

Bruce

[Phil Clark]

I believe much of the General International line is made in the same factory in Taiwan as King. If you compare both of their mini lathes, for example, you will find many identical parts. General introduced the 'International' line to compete in the lower price line market. The Canadian made line is competitive with any of the high end lines in price and quality.

[David Weaver]

As a follow-up post to the powermatic thread - you can still get a PM 66, which I believe is a US-Made saw, but it doesn't look as pretty or have all of the new conveniences of the taiwanese saws.

I think these saw-makers are trying to compete on price, and realize that most hobbyists (like me) are willing to tolerate a top that is 8 thou flat in the length, or a part here or there that doesn't line up, or even an entire saw that needs to be returned.

I would rather have a PM 66 than a new PM2000, but I don't think most of the buying public is going to discern that, or it wouldn't be getting harder and harder to find that.

The PM 66 vs. 2000 and G vs. GI debate, to me, is the same thing. In my opinion, if I'm going to get a taiwanese or chinese saw, I'm going to find the best of that type for the money (maybe the SC or grizz saws?) and not find the best US made type tool and then just assume that their taiwanese counterparts are great.

You know what they say about "assume".

Anyway, maybe they should've called the new general line "G-Lite" rather than General international.

[Dick Rowe]

Okay I remember seeing the red maple leaf on this saw. So it was a Canadian General. Wow, what a great price.

Kent,

Be aware that the Canadian flag you saw may have been on the fence which is made in Canada, but not on the GI saw itself.

[Tony Scolaro]

I prefer old tool guy but a couple years back when I was about to buy a new table saw and tired of too many project tools I did some research. The long and short of it is it came down to a PM66 or the General North American made. I called around two countries and seven dealers. I did the ole Ben Franklin Pro Con list. I also asked each dealer."Now we talked about the two saws you sell, the couple hundred dif. doesn't matter, I am your nephew, I come to you and ask which would you advice me to buy. In each case I did it (about 3 times) they said the PM66. I had reservations still but bought it. 4 months later I sold it off at a loss to a experienced professional woodworker. He came over with 15/16 of 10 inch dado put it on and ran it. He liked it. I didn't. The table was 8000 out and PM said it was within tolerences, the handles were crudely cast but the main thing was there was a slight underlying sound that I didn't like. It was of course under warranty so I got it changed out by the local outfit. Still made the underlying noise. PM said it is as good as it gets. I had an old tool guy come buy who was buying an old Dewalt RAS I had. I flip the switch and as soon as it came up to speed He said that doesn't sound right. I listed it for sale that night. It is being happily enjoyed by the new owner but for $2300 I expected more. I currently have a 1993 PM66 that I have since bought and like. It is my newest tool in the shop except for an "fake" Oliver 25" belt sander. I like it too so far. ONlY tiawanees tool in shop. The table saw duties are split with a Oliver 232 which I restored.

I would find good older equipment. If want new I think General is the way to go. It is good to reward companies that stay in North America. My understanding it is how American Manufacturers used to be. Has a long standing crew.

Best of luck it is always hard putting tool bucks on line. Many opinions out there too Tony