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Thread: Restoring a Bandsaw?

  1. #1
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    Restoring a Bandsaw?

    First post. I have seen numerous threads on purchasing new bandsaws of various makes and models. I have not seen any threats related to how difficult it is to restore/refurbish an old bandsaw. I have seen several used bandsaw locally in machine shops that should work for woodworking. They would need to be cleaned up, obviously. What are the down sides to doing this? I realize there are a number of variables. Are there any obvious things that should make me stop and say no to this bandsaw?

    As a side note, I saw that Mark Duginske posts on this forum. I just bought his BANDSAW HANDBOOK. I was so suprised, I thought authors of books were dead. Glad to see he is alive and well.

  2. #2

    redo

    Stop the presses. Sign up for a forum OWWM now. THey have pictures, tutorials, resources. Enjoy

  3. #3
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    band saws at machine shops are usually "metal cutting" band saws with much too slow of a blade speed for cutting wood. You should look for band saws in "pattern shops" which are usually the very best built wood cutting band saws. look for names like oliver, tannewitz, moak, yates american ...
    Lou

  4. #4

    Smile I'm alive but cold (chill factor 25 below)

    The chill factor here in north central Wisconsin is 25 below.

    The BANDSAW HAND BOOK (which I worked on for 5 years) was published in 1989 when I was thirty nine which makes me 57. However, that book is not in color and the illustrations are from various sources. It also doesn’t have info on the new Italian saws and other innovations.

    The new book, which will be out in two months, is from Fox Chapel
    and is titled: THE NEW COMPLETE GUIDE TO THE BAND SAW.

    I have spend the last couple of years learning how to draw in Adobe Illustrator and now Google SketchUp. All of the photos are done with a digital Canon Rebel (8.3). The editor is John Kelsey who I worked with on the two Taunton videos and the book MASTERING WOODWORKING MACHINES when I was a contributing editor to Fine Woodworking. I think that he did a superb job of making the text clear and organize. The editor is half of the book.

    Both Ken and Lou have valid points. The Old Wood Working Machines group was founded as a public service to amateur and professional woodworkers who enjoy using and/or restoring vintage machinery. Their very informative website is http://www.owwm.com/. There is some good info there and some suggestions that are questionable.

    I went to chapter 2 from the new book which is BUYING A BAND SAW (7,586 words) and copied this.

    FINDING USED EQUIPMENT

    Finding used equipment is often a waiting game. Word of mouth,
    classified ads, used machines dealers, estate sales and auctions are some of the places to look for used machines. E-bay and other online sources are popular. I personally would not buy a used machine that I did not inspect. There are just too many problems that are hard to determine in photos. With globalization a lot of businesses are closing. A bankruptcy auction is often a good source because the machinery was often being used until the sale. The demand for good used equipment is high and the bidding at the auction may escalate rapidly to the point where the price is no longer a good deal. Doing an online search for machinery auctions may be a good way to locate machines locally.

    Used machines can be divided into two camps; ready-to-go and needs-help.

    Ready-to-go as the name implies are machines that are ready to plug in and start cutting. They may need some adjustment and fine-tuning but they have the following characteristics; no missing parts,
    no unusual customizing, no broken, abused, or worn out parts.

    A ready-to-go band saw transaction is simply a matter of agreeing on a price. A Needs-help saw is a different situation.

    Used equipment prices depend on the condi-tion and the desirability of a particular machine. The rule-of-thumb is that a brand name band saw in running condition will often sell for 50% to 75% of a new unit. The fair price is adjusted up or down from the 50% depending on age and condition. On the high end an almost new saw is probably worth about 75% of the new price. On the low end an older saw with a lot of use is worth roughly 25 or 35%
    of a new saw.

    Popular brands like Delta, General (Canadian) Powermatic or Jet are in demand. A huge advantage of these well known brands is that the company is still in business and repair parts are usually readily available. The price of lesser-known brands drops precipitously.

    Needs-help as the name implies are machines that are worn out,
    abused, missing parts, etc. Of course there are gradations of this category. Missing a throat plate is less severe than missing the bottom guide assembly. The needs-help group can be further divided into subgroups depending on the condition of the machine. I usually add a number for every $100 worth of parts or every 3 hours of work on the machine. A saw that needs two new tires ($40) a new throat plate ($8) guide blocks (Cool blocks $15), a new top guard ($12) and a half hour of work ($17.50) adds up to $92.50 making it a needs-help-1. The “1” representing $100.

    Just about any one can handle a ready-to-go machine. A needs-help machine is a different matter and the needs should be matched with your skill, time, and money ratio. Each buyer has his/her own repair tolerance. A machinist who can make any part of a saw has a greater tolerance for repairs than someone with limited experience and tools. Be realistic about you limits and tolerance for used tools.

    Industrial brands like Northfield®, Newman-Whitney, Oliver, and Tannewitz® are desirable especially the smaller units. A friend of mine recently picked up a beautiful 20” Northfield® band saw at a retirement auction for the price of a new 14” unit. Northfield® and Tannewitz® are still in business so parts may be available which makes these machine even more desirable.

    Deal Killers are situations that you should avoid unless you have a lot of experience and get a saw at a very good price.

    * Cracks in casting- unless you are a very knowledgeable
    welder (see restoration section at the end of this chapter)
    * 3 Phase motors
    * Older Direct drive motors
    * Worn shafts of bearings
    * Excessive vibration
    * Missing key parts
    * A burned out motor
    * A machine, which has been disassembled
    * Babbitt bearings
    * Broken parts unless the part is readily avaialable

    There are exceptions if you have the skill and the inclination.
    Restoring of old cars, tractors and woodworking machines is a popular hobby. At the end of this chapter is a story about the restoration of an older Crescent band saw that had cracked castings, missing parts and required new Babbitt bearings. A member of the OLD WOOD WORKING MACHINES GROUP did this restoration. OWWM was founded as a public service to amateur and professional woodworkers who enjoy using and/or restoring vintage machinery. Their very informative website is http://www.owwm.com/. But just like I chap group, don’t belive everything that your read.

    Good Luck,

    Mark

    P.S. I have been involved with a lot of restorations and some have turned out good and bad. The ones that turn out bad wind up wasting a lot of money and time. For every old auto that is shiny at the car show there are dozens that people have purchase that are sucking up space and energy.
    Last edited by Mark Duginske; 02-03-2007 at 5:31 PM.

  5. #5
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    [quote=Mark Duginske]The chill factor here in north central Wisconsin is 25 below.


    Industrial brands like Northfield®, Newman-Whitney, Oliver, and Tannewitz® are desirable especially the smaller units. A friend of mine recently picked up a beautiful 20” Northfield® band saw at a retirement auction for the price of a new 14” unit. Northfield® and Tannewitz® are still in business so parts may be available which makes these machine even more desirable.

    Deal Killers are situations that you should avoid unless you have a lot of experience and get a saw at a very good price.

    * Cracks in casting- unless you are a very knowledgeable
    welder (see restoration section at the end of this chapter)
    * 3 Phase motors
    * Older Direct drive motors
    * Worn shafts of bearings
    * Excessive vibration
    * Missing key parts
    * A burned out motor
    * A machine, which has been disassembled
    * Babbitt bearings
    * Broken parts unless the part is readily avaialable

    There are exceptions if you have the skill and the inclination.


    I would agree with most of the deal killers, except the 3 phase one. most of those old bandsaws were 36 inch units with 3 phase direct drive motors. a static converter and a reasonably priced used 36 inch machine is way less than a new 36 inch bandsaw
    lou
    Last edited by lou sansone; 02-03-2007 at 7:12 PM.

  6. #6
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    Mark,

    I agree with Lou about the 3 phase thing. Far too many people let this issue limit their choices when in fact there are many easy, cost effective solutions for this these days.

    Also, I'm not aware of Newman-Whitney or their predecessor companies marketing a bandsaw. However, if they did, they too are still in business.

    Looking forward to the new book!
    Bill Simmeth
    Delaplane VA

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lou sansone View Post
    band saws at machine shops are usually "metal cutting" band saws with much too slow of a blade speed for cutting wood. You should look for band saws in "pattern shops" which are usually the very best built wood cutting band saws. look for names like oliver, tannewitz, moak, yates american ...
    Lou
    Worst advice ever given. I am addicted to old bandsaws....especially ones like this. They are wicked cool.

  8. #8
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    If you decide not to restore, check this site.

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=bandsa...b8ed2db388752e

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hachet View Post
    Worst advice ever given. I am addicted to old bandsaws....especially ones like this. They are wicked cool.
    Chris - you were digging through the archives to bring this one back up!

    But how is Lou’s advice bad? He’s saying to look for vintage woodworking bandsaws, not metalworking bandsaws.

    I miss a lot of names in this old thread - some were here in my early days of woodworking and I learned a lot from them!

  10. #10
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    I have gone through several of the 14" Delta's that were from the late 60's to 80's. All were just about the same, but good news is I did not buy the last one. There are tons of them out there along with parts which can be found pretty easy. Check your local CL's and maybe also around other towns in your area. 14" is a good BS without spending all your stash money, so good luck and keep all us posted on your project.

  11. #11
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    general rule is to remove the table before moving. Lots of saws for saws with broken trunnions for sale cheap since they are not availble making the saw useless.
    Any factory three phase saw was probbably good quality for when it was made. A vfd will not speed up a metal only saw fast enough for wood cutting.
    A 3HP VFD will run a 5-7 hp motor but only at max of 3hp which is probably enough for most work.
    Bill D

  12. #12
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    If looking for a saw to primarily resaw, stick with a 30" in the old iron or 24" or larger in steel. Three phase is easy to deal with with a vfd and direct drive on the old iron saws will be a given as belt drive are rare. If you are new to this game, an older SCM or Centauro steel 24" saw is a good choice. If you really want old iron, the Oliver 217 or Northfield 27 or 32 are the most common choices. Yates and Tanny PH are rare. You want the spindle shaft to be good ( Oliver had a tapered shaft so they usually are OK ) and if the wheels are Carter, they must be in good condition as they are expensive to replace. Dave

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