Full-Color Laser Engraving

[Luke Phillips]

Well, looks like I was one of the "dirty dozen" to get a slot. Like most, I waited anxiously for the final release of the process to the industry and passed up other opportunities in anticipation. I have no doubt that Thom and his team have spent a lot of time and money on their process and it is something special - no one else has come to market with a color process, other than dye-sublimation and heat press transfer, for lasers. But, based on what's been posted on the forum over the past couple of days, I don't think I'm ready for "prime time" and will pass up my slot.

What I had hoped for, and really been looking for, is the intergation of the Thermark pigments into a printer that would either apply the colors directly onto the surface of the material, or onto a transfer sheet that then could be fused using the laser.

I have had a margin of sucess using the Thermark colors and using Corel to de-layer the graphic - it takes a lot of computer time and processing - but the results are encouraging.

Let's give Thom and Atomic Art a chance here - he's obviously proud and protective of his work - and rightly so - hopefully some of the forum members will get to the upcoming show and see it up close and ask some tough questions?

[Eugene han]

I just ordered my laser system. I have asked several laser makers and some laser users about it. I was told to forget it. I searched the internet many times and could not find anything about their patent. I know that this process might not patenable since up to now, no info is public from the patent agency. The chance of to get full color by his claim is either impossible fo most of the substrate you will use or extremly low. How many samples they have made and sold. Are those posted in their web site were made by their claim or other processes? Anyone should be careful about entering paying huge amount of money without knowing a bit of what one can get. I also suggest to delete some of the post which is pure for the ad or promotion of their product or service without a bit clear picture of what it is.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Hi Thom;
I am going to assume you are sincere and willing to answer questions about the process. I apologize in advance if any appear to be ignorant as I must admit to being ignorant regarding this process.
1. Does the process utilize materials manufactured by others and can these materials be purchased from the manufacturer by anyone?
2. Does the process require any machine/tool/device which can be purchased by anyone on the open market?
3. Have you filed for a patent? What exactly are you trying to patent?
4. Can you post a picture of a 12 x12 tile photo/artwork done with the process and answer the following:
a. What make/model of laser was used to produce it?
b. How long did it take to produce? Laser time/prep time?
c. What is the cost of materials required to produce it?

I'll add:
If someone with a "licence" sells, but isn't based in my area, to customers in my "protected area", what will you do to protect me? What will you do to me if I do that?

Can we see a contract for attorney review?

Your website is notably devoid of details. Please fill in the gaps. That's what this forum is for.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I hope to be one of the first people to be trained.

Send a copy of the contract to your attorney BEFORE signing it. Your list of questions of your attorney beginning with "What happens if..." should be a full page, single spaced.

Seriously.

This sounds like an overly expensive training session. If the process is good and profitable, it'll hit the market sans the $5,500.00 buy-in.

One must ask, did the first guy offering Dye Sublimation get $5,500.00 for the "first 12"?

[Bob Keyes]

I'll add:
If someone with a "licence" sells, but isn't based in my area, to customers in my "protected area", what will you do to protect me? What will you do to me if I do that?

Can we see a contract for attorney review?

Your website is notably devoid of details. Please fill in the gaps. That's what this forum is for.

And, what if you sell to someone in your region and I sell their parent company in mine? Lot's of "fish hooks" here I fear!

[Tom Majewski]

In looking at his smples on the web site, I keep thinking if someone wanted to do color photos on ceramic/porcelain tiles or plates, there's already a process to spray photo emulsion on a tile, develope the picture, coat it with low fire glaze, fire it in a kiln, and last forever. Kiln, chemicals, enlarger/accessories, from scratch would be under $1K
My dad did this in the '70s with all the old family photos.
Granted, the turnaround time was 24hrs- chemical baking and kiln time, but the cost was around $10 plate including the electric bill.

[Gary Hair]

In looking at his smples on the web site, I keep thinking if someone wanted to do color photos on ceramic/porcelain tiles or plates, there's already a process to spray photo emulsion on a tile, develope the picture, coat it with low fire glaze, fire it in a kiln, and last forever. Kiln, chemicals, enlarger/accessories, from scratch would be under $1K
My dad did this in the '70s with all the old family photos.
Granted, the turnaround time was 24hrs- chemical baking and kiln time, but the cost was around $10 plate including the electric bill.

Or you could dye sub it and have it done in less than 20 minutes with a materials cost of about 7.00 per square foot.

[Bill Cunningham]

The pictures on the website, don't look any more 'photorealistic' than most stained glass pictures. Even with the extensive labour required for stained glass, a 12 x 12 piece would be cheaper than what you would have to sell this stuff for to make any money.. If your rich, and you want another hobby go for it.. But if you are considering this as a business, you better have some 'high end' customers signing on dotted lines before taking the plunge..
Quite frankly, I can't really see what the advantage would be to burn this stuff on with a laser, rather than with a kiln, or sublimation.. If your going to do doors and entranceways, your going to need one honken big laser as well.. Many companies emphasize that you can make hundreds of dollars an hour with their products or processes, but usually leave out the part about how you have to 'sell' the stuff too.. Find the market first, 'then' supply the product.. If you buy it, they won't always come!

[Chris Cordina]

This might sound silly but last year I talked to them at ARA and they said you have to be able to see colors to use this process, Ok stop laughing. I am what they call blue green color deficient and have trouble seeing true colors, with some processes this is not a problem (Example, to print a picture I don't have to know colors) but they said with this process it would. Just a heads up for all us color challenged.

[Tom Cullen]

Just my opinion, but seems like a very high price to be tutored on a process that may be slow and laborious. granted it looks great but what about availability of the solution and cost? I wonder would it really open other avenues of sales other than what we all already do? the price for any given item done using this process would be double that of regular engraving, especially considering the cost of product and time engraving as well as the cost off training. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or product, but I for one will be sitting this one out. I would be more likely to give it a try if it was on the open market.

[Ed Newbold]

Can we see a contract for attorney review? Your website is notably devoid of details. Please fill in the gaps. That's what this forum is for.

I will hazard a guess that he won't be back to answer any of these questions.

[Jim Good]

I thought all the questions were not only "serious" questions but good ones, too. As mentioned before, service is very important and I have not seen anything that tells me anyone would receive good service with this venture.

Jim

[Luke Phillips]

FYI - there is another thread running on Engravingetc.org about Atomic Art.

[Mitchell Andrus]

FYI - there is another thread running on Engravingetc.org about Atomic Art.

I took a look. For the most part, they discuss this discussion and ponder the same annoying, and as yet unanswered questions.

[Eugene han]

Since you can not find his name from patent agency database. I do not think they have a patent issued, even an application. They never answer real questions in several websites in over a year. Why we trust them that the images posted in their websites are made from laser engravers. I asked several laser makers including those they claimed can be applied to and users and dealers of the coating they used. I was told to forget it. I have a suggestion one should always be careful to them, are they name they used in this forum are real, if not, we should deny their right to post here.

Eugene