Festool Domino

[Bob Smalser]

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=28038

This tool does look spiffy. But the video above, shows a box of 1000 assorted tenons and the four sizes of bits for $200 over the basic price. So, with tax and or shipping it's close to a $1000 to get started. Also remember that Fein and Festool replacement parts are also costly, and there are some horror stories out there in the boatbuilding community on what parts breakage costs per linear foot of billable work.

There are stationary horizontal slot mortisers for little more money, that have much greater capacity for the small commercial shop:

http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/slot_mortisers.php

[Dan Lautner]

"There are stationary horizontal slot mortisers for little more money, that have much greater capacity for the small commercial shop"

Now we have come to the real essence of the matter. The Rojek is the cheapest stand alone slot mortiser. It has a small table and a stationary head. To get into a more capable machine with a moving head you are in the $4500 plus range (Felder Laguna).


Slot mortiser advantages:

1. capacity of mortise

Domino Advantages:

1. Speed
2. no need to support long or heavy pieces on a small moving table
3. Domino can be taken to the job or anywhere you want to work

For large scale work the slot mortiser seems to be the only quick method
for making loose tenons. But for everything else I don't see how you can
beat the Domino.

Dan

[Bob Smalser]

... I don't see how you can
beat the Domino.

Dan

Sure you can.

Like the Lamello plate joiner rage way back when, all you have to do it wait for the patent to expire and all the other tool makers to fall all over themselves making knockoffs.

And a stick too large to take to a stationary machine is a joint that requires a larger tenon than this tool will produce.

[Gary Keedwell]

Sure you can.

Like the Lamello plate joiner rage way back when, all you have to do it wait for the patent to expire and all the other tool makers to fall all over themselves making knockoffs.

And a stick too large to take to a stationary machine is a joint that requires a larger tenon than this tool will produce.

LOL Bob, you crack me up. That was the first laugh I had tonite. You might be a prophet....ten years from now alot of people might have dusty old dominos collecting dust in the corner next to the bisquit joiner. lol Now where did I put my Hula-hoop?
Gary K.

[Jim Becker]

Now where did I put my Hula-hoop?

There are two of them on our patio...one red; one silver...

[James Biddle]

You gotta love this forum. With each post, I tip a little to each side of the fence as each poster makes a compelling argument.

Assuming the benefits of the Domino are as claimed (maybe a little overdone, but probably very close), I'm trying to answer whether I would like to throw my mortise & tenon $$'s into the Festool corner? (Disclosure: I'm somewhat of a Festool hound.)

From what I'm reading, the only thing a FMT (a heavy player in this discussion) may have over the Domino is the accuracy on an end mortise, but that might be overcome by a simple jig for the Domino (I've used the FMT several times and love it).

I worry less and less about the initial cost, because I'm finding over and over that it doesn't really pay. The cost of upgrading is more than offset by buying quality at the onset. Lets face it, I'm not going to sell my Kreg pocket hole setup, and I'm not going to get rid of my PC biscuit joiner either, in the event I buy a Domino. I'm ging to keep them for the occaisional use that they'll continue to provide. So, is it worth it to upgrade to a Domino and not buy a slot mortiser or FMT or such? The price isn't significantly differerent between the Domino, FMT, or a slot mortiser, is it?

The question is: which one works best for me, 'cause I only want to buy one?

[Mike Cutler]

The question is: which one works best for me, 'cause I only want to buy one?

James. In all honesty there isn't just one. With the exception of the Mortise Chisel, Swan Neck Chisel, and the Bench Mallet. There are many ways, and techniques to make the M&T joint.

This is a tool that will fill a specific need for certain individuals, as did the slot mortiser. If used within it's designed parameters, I'm certain that custom folks, like Per and his Father, will realize a definable return in $$$ and time. To be able to slot mortise, and fit on the jobsite will be of great value. Kind of like a belt sander, or a palm sander. A regular sanding block does the same thing, one is just faster. The Festool will allow for greater on the jobsite reaction. Fewer trips back to the shop.

For someone like Bob Smalser? Maybe he would find a use for it, but most of Bob's stuff, that he has presented, is too big for a Domino. Possibly too big for a slot mortiser also. He deals with some heavy timbers, and boatbulding.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Domino, and what folks can do with it. I couldn't justify the cost of the FMT, so I don't think I'll be able to justify the cost of the Domino. It sure looks nice for cabinet making though. Maybe someday.

Anyone else notice that there has been a lot of discussion on M&T joints and methods lately. I think folks are looking to up the craftsmanship of their work.

[Dan Clark]

Many of us have been cutting this joint ever since the advent of good plunge routers almost 40 years ago.

Cobble a jig with stops or merely use the router's fence to cut the mortises.....rip and thickness the tenon stock.....then use a simple roundover bit to finish the tenons and cut them to length.

No need I can see to buy from the current record holders for ridiculously-priced tools.

Bob,

If you have the time, space, and inclination to "cobble together" something... Have at it.

Unfortunately, I don't. I'm a contractor. (But not one having anything remotely to do with working with wood.) Like all contractors, TIME IS MONEY!

I have NO time available to "cobble together" anything. If it's trivial, then maybe. If it's for one time use, then maybe. But trying to make my own unique tool for a major project or repeated use is a waste of time and money for me.

Regarding Festool being overpriced, I disagree pretty strongly. Expensive? Yes. But you get value for your money. And their products work well as a system. And dust control is excellent. This is value for me.

What is overpriced is a lot of the cheap junk sold by the local BORG. What absolutely amazes me is the number of people who "gloat" about picking up a cheap tool at a cheap price. Then a few weeks later they are in a forum complaining that it doesn't work very well, or breaks down, or they have to fiddle with it constantly to make it work. That's overpriced. That's wasting time and money.

Dan.

[Dan Lautner]

"And a stick too large to take to a stationary machine is a joint that requires a larger tenon than this tool will produce."


Ok you got me there Bob. But Festool's sister company can cover you on the big stuff. But if you don't like the Festool pricing then protool and Mafell might not be for you either.

001.jpg

Dan

[Bob Smalser]

Unfortunately, I don't. I'm a contractor. (But not one having anything remotely to do with working with wood.) Like all contractors, TIME IS MONEY!

For floating tenons, if your typical cabinet door or panel uses a 2" rail on one end of the door and a 3" rail on the other end, that's a whopping number of 4 jigs you have to build once per router purchase. Less than that if you stick with the same router base size. Money is also money.

But if your methods of work make the Festool pay for itself, then by all means go for it. Just avoid the chorus of marketeers telling weekend woodworkers they can't live without one. As many as Norm sells when he eventually features them, you can trust the price won't go down until the patent expires.



900 bucks for one of these to replace those same 4 jigs doesn't make much sense to me, either.

But you never know...maybe I just did fall off the turnip truck after all.

[Bob Swenson]

Bob; I will be 102 years old when the patent on the Domino runs
out, I don’t think I want to wait that long for an almost like it tool.
I hope Per put the order in.
Old ten finger BOB.

[Gary Keedwell]

Hope everybody had a great Christmas. I still say were talking apples (hobbyists) and oranges (pro's) with the new offering from Festfool.
As a hobbyist and a guy who appreciates nice tools, I will purchase a Festool product if I find that they make something I need and it is better then their competition. I have their cordless drill (15.6) and love playing around with it. I like showing the chucks to friends. Very well made.
I am thinking about the sanders...for health reasons. I thought about (for one minute) the circular saw with the guide, but decided to keep breaking down sheet goods my old way.
As for the latest offering (domino) I see absolutely no reason to purchase it. But remember, I'm only in this for the fun and relaxation this hobby offers me. I think that it could benefit the production workers who do this to make money, though.
Just my 2 cents...
Gary K.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

"And a stick too large to take to a stationary machine is a joint that requires a larger tenon than this tool will produce."

Yah that's one of the objections I had when I saw it working. They choose the size of yout joint components for you and that does not sit well with me.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Who is going to get one at the $700.00 introductory price?

It's a cute gadget. It places a very precise slot at exactly the angle you set it for in a stick of wood and it'll do it over and over.

What I don't like are :
1.) the price

2.) the fact that some German engineer is choosing the size and shape of your joint components (that just doesn't work for me).

3.) The fact that no matter how good they make the thing (and they do make it well) it is absolutely impossible to get a long duty life from a pack of teeny tiny gears and bearings unless you somehow limit the stresses the gadget will encounter. I don't know if that's possible for a wood working machine. And this gadget does a lot more than simply spin round like a rounter. It plunges and sweeps side to side while spinning round. That is one huge amount of mechanical activity going on in such a tiny package. I can't see this gadget lasting more than a year and a half tops.

4.) The fact that the joint component size is limited and not expandable.

[Bob Childress]

Who is going to get one at the $700.00 introductory price?

Me. I already sent my order to Uncle Bob Marino.