Brush on Deft lacquer vs spray lacquer???

[Paul Engle]

John's post brings up the question to me is the brush on deft vs spray lacquer any different? Have never used either but hear tell the lacquer supposed to put " on " the shine. What kind of brush would one use to get the best finish, and how many coats to get there, sand in between with what grit and would one buff with or with out polish / caranuba or bees or say Minwax finish wax? phew that took for ever.....

[Dennis Peacock]

Paul,

Even though Deft "says" it's a brushing lacquer? Don't do it. It's really a "spraying" lacquer. I've tried and I've put down at least 10 gallons of lacquer in the recent 2 years. If you want a brushing lacquer you'll need to thin it AND add retarder. The key is to ALWAYS keep a wet edge on subsequent brush passes and you should NEVER back brush with lacquer. It dries so fast....Brushing on lacquer require "flowing it on" which means heavily loading your brush and moving it fairly slow to prevent air bubbles getting in the finish (like in polyurethane).

In short? You can brush it...it just needs to be thinned and add in the retarder to help keep it wet long enough. It's all about "chemistry" and just the "right mix".

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul I started using Deft brushing lacquer on my turnings a month or so ago with good results. I bought an all purpose, natural hair brush (cheapest one) at the local HD. I took a jelly jar with a screw-on lid and punched a hole through the lid. I sized the hole to fit the handle of the brush. I poured Deft brushing lacquer in the jar. I friction the lacquer on....I cover the bed of my lathe with a paper towel....brush on the lacquer at a low speed and then turn the speed up to the fastest for about a minute or so. Then I friction it in with a paper towel. On pens and bottle stoppers I've been frictioning in 3 or 4 coats. I've been very pleased with the results.

I know a lot of Creeker turners spray lacquer too!

[Dennis Peacock]

Oh...forgot what forum section I was in. Lacquer and turning.....yea....that's the right section. Yea....but you still need to keep a wet edge when brushing on the lathe as well.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul........I've had to add thinner occasionally to the Deft in the jar. I don't sand between coats but the frictioning smooths out any ridges in the finish. The heat caused by the frictioning cause the lacquer to dry quite quickly. I follow it immediately with a Beal buffing.

I just did a cocobolo pen yesterday that the finish is stunning.

[Earl Reid]

I have been using Deft for about 50 yrs, amost all of it in the spray cans. I had very poor results with trying to brush it on. I have aways had a fairly small workshop and using the spray cans is handy for me. I've must used over 1000 cans over years.

Earl

[David Walser]

but I'm going to. Lacquer is a very forgiving finish. It is self-leveling, which means that brush marks should automatically disapear IF you put on a heavy enough coat. The balance you try to achieve is heavy enough to level without being so heavy that it runs. On flat work, that's not a hard balance to achieve. On turnings, it can be. I used to work in the finish department of a furniture mill and sprayed and brushed a lot of lacquer. Our rule of thumb was to put on several light coats if we were spraying. (With a spray gun it's too easy to pool the finish if you don't put on a light coat.) When brushing, we put on a much heavier coat.

On turnings, my usual practice is to put it on heavy with a brush and then wipe of the "excess" to avoid any runs. That's not because of the nature of the finish but because of the shape of the peice. If it were flat a heavy coat would work just fine.

[Paul Engle]

Ok thanks guys, I ordered hog hair brush and will try both ways... spray and brush with retarded and thinner. I have frictioned on tung and wipe poly before and like its results, so I understand that process. Just waiting for it to dry was making me impatient.

[John Hart]

There's another quality to spraying lacquer, other than the obvious aromatic and hallucinogenic properties....


....ummm.....sorry...I forgot what I was going to say.



....oh yeah....time between coats. Sure, it takes 3 or 4 coats of the stuff, before you have a glass-like finish....but those 3 or 4 coats are done in 2 hours. I like to hit the peice with coarse steel wool between coats too. The light coat....to me....is imperative to prevent sagging, and gives added depth.

[Karl Card]

I also do not understand why you would need to sand between coats with lacquer. With each new coat it actually blends in with the previous coat as to still form one thicker coat.

i am speaking for the oil based lacquer. I have not used the water based deft lacquer yet.

[John Hart]

Karl...that's a very good question. I think I have an answer, but I'm open to debate.

It is true that lacquer has the great capacity to blend with the previous coat, but it also seemed to me, that if I was uneven in my coating...even to a small degree, then the later coats would cause excessive weight in certain spots and tend to sag. Then I would end up having to start all over.

When a light buffing with steel wool, I was able to acheive the evenness I needed, and it would also dull the finish so I could see better where the unevenness was.

Since 2006 when that was written, I admit that I don't feel the need to brush it up as often as I used to. So maybe I'm just getting better at my distribution.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I also do not understand why you would need to sand between coats with lacquer. With each new coat it actually blends in with the previous coat as to still form one thicker coat. "

It's true that lacquer, being essentially it's own solvent, will "cut into" the previous coat. But if that previous coat is not smooth, neither will the next one be. When applying a buildup of light coats, the first couple will "fuzz up" due to the very slight grain raising effect and the fact that these coats stiffen the wood fibers. These fibers need to be "cut off" and sanding is the way to accomplish that. After you have built up a very smooth surface, you may get away with less or no sanding but you are pretty much counting on these coats flowing out perfectly with absolutely no dust, however fine it may be, settling into the wet finish. Unless you are shooting lacquer in a climate controlled "clean room", this is very unlikely to be the case. So even the final coats need to be at least rubbed out if you want the best possible finish.

Class dismissed....

[John Keeton]

And, my guess is that Double D has used a ton of lacquer!!!

I have been playing with a lot of different finishes since starting this turning thing. Most of my turnings are domestic wood species, except for the finials and stems on some. And, for the most part, I start with BLO and shellac as I like the warmth. The shellac also does on well, and I can get rid of those fuzzies David mentioned. It seems to make a good base for the lacquer. Doing that, I have found I can lay down 4-5 coats of brush on, sand it level with 400, then 600, buff with 0000, and then spray on a few coats to get a little more build. Sand again with 600, and triple buff. I get a nice flat and smooth finish with that approach.

But, keep in mind that my experience consists of about 6 months! Never touched lacquer in the flat work I did.

[Barry Elder]

May I suggest going to Wood Central and scroll down to Russ's Corner and read all his info on using lacquer, brush-on and spray can. A wealth of information!

[Allen Neighbors]

I started spraying lacquer in about 1980 or 90, I think. It is true, that Lacquer melts Lacquer. That means that when you spray a coat of lacquer on a piece that has previously been sprayed, it will melt into the previous coating. Now, I'm talking about spraying a coat over a piece that was previously sprayed within the last couple of hours or so... it will work on a piece that was sprayed last night, even, but if the lacquer has had several days, or years, to cure, you need to light sand it first, to give the lacquer some better "tooth", to cling to, because it doesn't melt in quite as much.
A friend of mine, who had been in the business of furniture repair for about 40 or so years, taught me a lot of the little idiosyncrasies of Lacquer... like how much Retarder and thinner to use, and never having to clean my spray gun.
Water-white, Pre-catalyzed, High Gloss, Nitrocellulose Lacquer is the best that I've ever used. Bar none.
That said, I've never tried the Deft Brush-on. It could just be the cat's meow. When my source quit selling what I wanted, I went elsewhere.... the word "Brush" just scared me off.