Festool Junkies

[Rick Christopherson]

Yes, I was with Bob Hunter (WOOD Mag) and many other editors over in Germany this past week (I just got off the plane a couple hours ago, so I still have some major jet-lag). I have had a Domino for about 6-months now but was not permitted to discuss it publically until this week.

In my opinion, Domino is going to shatter the biscuit joiner market because the only reason to ever buy a biscuit joiner from this point forward is for cost. There is no task that a biscuit joiner can do that Domino doesn't do better; bar none!!

The keys to Domino are the precision of the cuts, the strength of the tenons, and the versatility.

• Domino can register the tenon/joint both vertically and horizontally with super-tight tolerances.
• What Bob didn't mention in his last Blog is the quality assurance that goes into the Domino. I was really impressed that every Domino built, is tested by making a set of cuts in a piece of test-wood, but moreover, this piece of wood is given a serial number and is retained and tracked for future reference for every tool. In other words, if your Domino ever has a problem, Festool can retrieve the original test-block of wood from when the tool was built and compare it to how the tool is performing years later. I don't know of any other tool company that retains and tracks calibration settings for each tool built!!!!
• The domino Tenons are very strong (P.S. Please don't call these biscuits or dowels: they are tenons; more specifically Domino Tenons.) Unlike biscuits, Dominos are not made from a pressed or composite wood. They are made from solid beech wood and milled to precision. Instead of penetrating less than 1/2-inch into the wood, a Domino pentrated over a full inch into the wood.
• For versatility, the Dominos are available in a variety of sizes. The smallest, 5-mm is just slightly thicker than a common biscuit, but they also have 5, 6, 8, 10 mm thicknesses.

I am way too tired and haven't had enough sleep to go into more detail tonight, but in my opinion this is the single most revolutionary tool to hit the market in years, or even decades.

[Gary Keedwell]

This is aimed at R. Christopherson,

A bisquit joiner is made to line parts up for glueing only. They are only an aid. Would you use this domino gadget for lining up parts for glueing? Then how can you say "bar none?"

Gary K.

[Rick Christopherson]

This is aimed at R. Christopherson,

A bisquit joiner is made to line parts up for glueing only. They are only an aid. Would you use this domino gadget for lining up parts for glueing? Then how can you say "bar none?"

Gary K.

Contrary to popular belief, a biscuit joiner is not very good for alignment purposes, at least not in the tolerances that I demand. I won't use a biscuit joiner for aligment.

However, I used the domino to align my glue up for a wood turning a couple of weeks ago. I posted this glue-up a couple of weeks ago on another forum, but I did not mention that I used my Domino to make the glue up.

The Domino far, far, far surpasses a biscuit when it comes to alignment. I am not sure if this answers your question though.

[Gary Keedwell]

Contrary to popular belief, a biscuit joiner is not very good for alignment purposes, at least not in the tolerances that I demand. I won't use a biscuit joiner for aligment.

However, I used the domino to align my glue up for a wood turning a couple of weeks ago. I posted this glue-up a couple of weeks ago on another forum, but I did not mention that I used my Domino to make the glue up.

The Domino far, far, far surpasses a biscuit when it comes to alignment. I am not sure if this answers your question though.

I think done properly, it is used to edge glue long boards for making panels.If the bisquit and the slots are sized right, it can help in glue-ups. I don't think a domino would be economical for that, would it?
Gary K.

[Gary Keedwell]

I beg to differ. When making up panels by edge glueing long boards, I find the bisquit joiner pretty effecient. That is of course if you have bisquits that fit properly.
If your bisquits have been stored right and your slots are to size then you should have no problems. Though I will say that I myself use that joiner less and less each year. It is just that my methods have gotten better and I don't use the bisquit joiner as much as an aid for alignment.

Gary K.

[John Miliunas]

I beg to differ. When making up panels by edge glueing long boards, I find the bisquit joiner pretty effecient. That is of course if you have bisquits that fit properly.
If your bisquits have been stored right and your slots are to size then you should have no problems. Though I will say that I myself use that joiner less and less each year. It is just that my methods have gotten better and I don't use the bisquit joiner as much as an aid for alignment.

Gary K.

First off, I'd like to think of myself as a "Festool Junkie!" I'm currently at 4 sanders, two drills and a jigsaw. I'm chomping at the bit to check out the Domino, as well. However, what Gary speaks of is truth and then some. It's been proven that biscuits, though probably not quite as accurate or strong as the Domino, do indeed provide some additional strength to a joint AND, if the jointer and biscuits are accurate, glue-ups will also be accurate.

I speak somewhat from experience on this one. I good friend of mine finally broke down and bought a Lamello about a year ago. Until that point, he had found (through his own research/testing) that a Makita jointer was as accurate as he could lay hands on, sans the Lamello. I ended up purchasing his used Makita from him and ditching my old one at a rummage sale. Yes, at first I was hesitant to replace a biscuit system, due to the general sloppiness. However, after talking to my buddy, he assured me that the Makita would do a much nicer job for me, but only IF I ditched my "run of the mill" biscuits and used Lamello biscuits. Huh? He explained that much of the sloppiness comes from both, the machine AND the biscuits themselves. He challenged me to put calipers on my current biscuits. Wow! What a revelation! Thicknesses were all over the board. Gee, no wonder I couldn't get boards to line up properly! I got a box of Lamello biscuits and did the same thing. Not 100%, but most assuredly, a LOT more consistent. Now my glue-ups with biscuits are much, much more accurate and smooth. Are they as smooth, strong and versatile as the Domino? Nope. Is there a test joint sitting at the Makita factory which will match up with my jointer? Hmmm, I kinda' don't think so. So yes, a Domino may make it into my future but, the point of this particular rambling is: The right jointer and biscuit combination can still be made to work and work well.

[Bob Marino]

First off, I'd like to think of myself as a "Festool Junkie!" I'm currently at 4 sanders, two drills and a jigsaw. I'm chomping at the bit to check out the Domino, as well. However, what Gary speaks of is truth and then some. It's been proven that biscuits, though probably not quite as accurate or strong as the Domino, do indeed provide some additional strength to a joint AND, if the jointer and biscuits are accurate, glue-ups will also be accurate.

I speak somewhat from experience on this one. I good friend of mine finally broke down and bought a Lamello about a year ago. Until that point, he had found (through his own research/testing) that a Makita jointer was as accurate as he could lay hands on, sans the Lamello. I ended up purchasing his used Makita from him and ditching my old one at a rummage sale. Yes, at first I was hesitant to replace a biscuit system, due to the general sloppiness. However, after talking to my buddy, he assured me that the Makita would do a much nicer job for me, but only IF I ditched my "run of the mill" biscuits and used Lamello biscuits. Huh? He explained that much of the sloppiness comes from both, the machine AND the biscuits themselves. He challenged me to put calipers on my current biscuits. Wow! What a revelation! Thicknesses were all over the board. Gee, no wonder I couldn't get boards to line up properly! I got a box of Lamello biscuits and did the same thing. Not 100%, but most assuredly, a LOT more consistent. Now my glue-ups with biscuits are much, much more accurate and smooth. Are they as smooth, strong and versatile as the Domino? Nope. Is there a test joint sitting at the Makita factory which will match up with my jointer? Hmmm, I kinda' don't think so. So yes, a Domino may make it into my future but, the point of this particular rambling is: The right jointer and biscuit combination can still be made to work and work well.

John, I agree with you regarding the Lamello; both about the tool and the Lamello biscuits - just a better machine. Having said that, if you know anyone interested in a lightly used Lamello C2 and a few hundred biscuits, let me know.

Bob

[Rick Christopherson]

Please don’t take this as an insult, but when I make a glue-up, I have much higher standards than most others will hold. When I run my finger across the still-wet glue line, if I can feel the slightest edge, the joint is not acceptable. This translates to an alignment of just 0.001-0.002 inch.

I learned that biscuits could not give me this level of precision time-after-time, but moreover, the biscuits prevented me from flexing the boards as necessary to tweak the alignment. The greatest problem with most biscuit joiners is either runout in the blade, or the blade not being perfectly parallel with the fence.

When I made the lathe turning blank shown below, I realized that it was too large to re-square the ends once it was glued together. I never would have attempted this glue up with biscuit alignment, because I could not afford to have any alignment issues. In the third picture, you can see where one of the outer Dominos is cut through (I placed it outside of the required final blank). The inner Dominos were placed inside the narrowest radius of the turning. When completed, this 60 pound turning blank had perfect alignment of the ends.

So to answer Gary’s question; no, using Domino is not as cost effective as using a biscuit joiner for alignment. However, when the alignment is critical, or the joint needs to be strengthened, then Domino works perfectly.

The machining tolerances on the Domino are that 99.994% of components must fit within 0.0003 (3-tenthousandths inch). Those are the “rejection” standards, but in reality, the 6-sigma deviation is that most components are within 1 or 2 tenthousandths of an inch. (I wasn’t taking notes during the quality assurance presentation, but most of the magazine editors were. You can probably find more information on one of the several magazine blogs.)

[Gary Keedwell]

Using bisquits for aligning long boards for edge-joining is a legitimate method for glueing up. As long as you use well stored bisquits and the slot is right thickness, it is a fine method.
Gary K.

[Gary Keedwell]

Is someone deleting my posts?

Gary K.

[Don Bullock]

...First, we see Norm with his spanking new bisquit joiner...and we all got one for Christmas. Jump ahead a few years and were all getting a new pocket hole gizmo. Oh yea, before and during these new "developments" were exposed to the latest dowel jigs.

So now the market has gotten us 3 times and this spring they're shooting for # 4. Domino. How appropriate that they are calling it Domino. These new METHODS of joinery keep going down like dominos. lol...

I did have to laugh out loud at this one. You make a very good point. As someone who is just getting back into the woodworking hobby I'm getting very confused with some of this new fangled ways. What happened to the old fashioned way of joining wood? I'd rather master those.

[Bob Childress]

I did have to laugh out loud at this one. You make a very good point. As someone who is just getting back into the woodworking hobby I'm getting very confused with some of this new fangled ways. What happened to the old fashioned way of joining wood? I'd rather master those.

There is some truth in that and I support your point of view. But some of us are more interested in the end product than in the process. My satisfaction comes from producing a quality (as best I am able) finished piece. Anything within reason that helps me achieve that quality faster and more predictably gets my vote. Others derive immense satisfaction from the feel of the handplane or the bite of a well-sharpened chisel. More power to both camps.

Gary, I don't know if anyone is deleting your posts but it would be nice if you took your fonts off BOLD. It feels like you're yelling, even though I know you're not (are you?).

[Christian Aufreiter]

April 1st is a peculiar day to release a new product. It must not have the same meaning (April Fools Day) in Europe.

I can assure that it HAS the same meaning here (at least in Austria and Germany).

So now the market has gotten us 3 times and this spring they're shooting for # 4. Domino. How appropriate that they are calling it Domino. These new METHODS of joinery keep going down like dominos. lol
Maybe the manufacturers of mass furniture will benifit from this but there not getting $700-$800 from this hobbyist!!!

I agree, that the Domino isn’t cheap. But I do doubt that a company that concentrates on mass furniture would base its production on Domino tools.

Regards,

Christian

[Bob Childress]

I agree, that the Domino isn’t cheap. But I do doubt that a company that concentrates on mass furniture would base its production on Domino tools.

Of course not. It is aimed squarely at the small shops and custom furniture makers, with a smattering of hobbiests thrown in. The custom shops that have used it are uniformly praising it.

[Gary Keedwell]

Contrary to popular belief, a biscuit joiner is not very good for alignment purposes, at least not in the tolerances that I demand. I won't use a biscuit joiner for aligment.

However, I used the domino to align my glue up for a wood turning a couple of weeks ago. I posted this glue-up a couple of weeks ago on another forum, but I did not mention that I used my Domino to make the glue up.

The Domino far, far, far surpasses a biscuit when it comes to alignment. I am not sure if this answers your question though.

If all conditions are good (nice dry bisquits & right size slot) bisquit joinery can be very productive and accurate especially edge joining long boards.
Gary K.