Wood Magazine Cylone Question

[Tim Pippin]

I have been reading a good deal of posts concerning cyclone performance and I'm still wondering how much hp do I need. I recently downloaded the Wood Magazine shop built cyclone plans. I have added a 4' x 8' enclosed shed to my shop to house my compressor and dust collector to hopefully cut down on the noise in my shop.

I live in a rural area and wanted to use the cyclone with a bin to colect chips and larger dust particles and discharge the fine dust to the outside. I hoped the open ended system would help to maintain cfm during collection. I had planned to use the plans to build a cyclone, I currently have a 1 1/2 hp shop fox DC rated @ 1280 cfm at zero static pressure and wanted to use the blower assembly to build the cyclone.

Has anyone used the Wood plans to build the cyclone? Should I hold off and invest more to build one using a Bill Pentz desigh with more hp?

[Jim Becker]

Not enough information. You need to start with your tools and work your way back to the DC/cyclone to figure your needs. Each tool has certain demands for effective dust collection. The size and design of the hood affects air flow. The duct work between the tool/hood and the DC/cyclone further places demands on the system. Once you figure the required CFM to support your shop configuration, you can determine how to build (or buy) your cyclone and how to power it. This goes for the WOOD design as well as well as any other, including the other one you cite.

That all said, the WOOD design works...plenty of folks have them. You'll note on the plan that the original design was revised to include sizing for different blower/motor combionations. If you do use this design, match up the blower with the actual build parameters. (Your current blower probably provides about 600-600 CFM max in the "real world" which is never at 0 SP...otherwise known as free-air)

I did have a 1.5hp cyclone in my shop prior to two years ago (Oneida) but it was not sufficient for my needs when I expanded the shop and added larger tools like my 14" J/P combo. The larger 2hp commercial system in place does perform well. 1.5hp and an 11"/12" blower-impeller like you have is rock bottom in size for a cyclone.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Several years back I taught a series of workshops on building the Wood Magazine Cyclone. We built over fifty of them over the years. The one in my shop has a 1 HP Cincinnati Fan blower on it. It does every thing I ask of it, except seperate shavings from exhaust air, particularly when running cypress. I need to add neurtral vane to it. When using my Delta 15" planer (model 380), I have about 20' of 4" pvc and 10' of 4" flex hooked to it, and it has no trouble keeping up with chips. My trash can is located over a plentium with seven of the 6"X 65" filter socks from Onedia. Total floor space about 36" deep X 42" wide. A sensor in the panel box controls the unit. Check out Wood online site, DC forum for more info. I cut both cylinder and cone from one piece or 3'X8"- 26 ga sheet metal.

[Tim Pippin]

Jim
I have a 16 x 20 shop with a 10" cabinet saw, 12" csms, 14" bandsaw, 6" jointer, 12" planer, and a lathe. I have installed an ovehead air cleaner and currently have my DC ducted via sheet metal ductwork to my individual machines. I am moving my dc to the outside of my shop. It just seems having a filter bag to change and clean inside the shop is a bad idea. Everytime you empy the bags or clean them you can stir up a lot fine dust in the area you're trying to protect.


I realize that a cyclone with a 1 1/2 hp blower is not the optimal solution. I'm just trying to decide if its worth converting my present system.

[Terry Hatfield]

Tim,

Considering your tool list, I think you will be disappointed with the performance. The cyclone body is going to add resistance that will mean that you will actually have less overall performance than you do now. IMHO, a 1 1/2 hp blower that probably has a 10" or so impeller will not be enough to power the system very well and you will end up wanting to do something else and the money/time you invested in the building/conversion will be waisted. If you can get something bigger to begin with you will be much happier and spend less money and effort in the long run.

Terry

[Tim Pippin]

Terry,

You're probably right on the money. I have a couple of weeks before I finish my addition and get my compressor moved. I hope to make a decision by then. I have been looking @ Bill Pentz site and reading articles of people who have built their own cyclone using his plans. I just want to remove as much dust as I can. I'm tired of working a weekend in my shop and staying sick fora couple of weeks.

[Terry Hatfield]

Tim,

I honestly do think you will be much happier if you build one of Bill's design or buy a Griz or Oneida and couple that with 6" ducts. I built one of Bill's and you really could not ask for any thing better. I too had the problem with the dust making me sick. A good cyclone, ducting and filter has made a tremondous difference for me. I don't see how I would be able to continue woodworking if it were not for the cyclone especially in the winter when the doors have to be closed.

t

new_cyclone.jpg

edit: can't spell or proof read as usual.

[Bob Dodge]

Tim,

I agree wholeheartedly with Terry. You'd be taking a step backwards with the small cyclone. From what I recollect, it has a 4" intake doesn't it? The original plan called for a 1 1/2 HP Penn State blower if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying "don't build it"; with modifications, you'd probably do "ok".

The cyclone body itself, would be quite inexpensive to build. You already have a blower.

I'd seriously consider using that blower in a "push-through" configuration. In other-words, your blower you be utilized between the cyclone-body and your machines. You'd be "pushing" air into the cyclone-body. This set-up would conserve much more of your suction-pressure, compared to mounting it on top of the un-modified cyclone.

Furthermore, I'd consider adding at the minimum, a neutral-vane, and preferably a helical-baffle or air-ramp.

The cyclone-body's inlet should also be enlarged to 6" (preferably rectangular (4"x7"), and, increase the diameter of the up-take tube inside the cyclone-body.(minimum 9"). Remember, we're driving this particular cyclone with a 1 1/2 HP blower. Reducing back-pressure will be of prime importance to retain suction-pressure. Your particular blower will never be sending more than 800 CFM to the cyclone anyway.

Consider your ceiling height before you build. This would be the ideal time to lengthen the cone, and possibly increase the discharge-chute diameter.

That said, you are obviously dissatisfied with your present dc's cabability. If you're currently using 4" pipe exclusively, you're not optimizing your dc's potential. With 4" pipe, you're basically raising airflow resistance to a point where you'll be limited to roughly 400 CFM at best. There would simply be no point in building a cyclone, if you're going to use the same pipe. Buy yourself a length of decent-quality 5" hose, and hook-up your present dc directly to your machines before doing anything else. I think you'll be in for a big surprise.

Bob

[Jim Becker]

Bob, the current plan has updated version information with larger inlets, if I'm recalling properly. I have a copy around here somewhere, but can't find it...

[Bob Dodge]

I think you're right Jim. Seems to me I also saw someone say that they've added a neutral vane. I don't recall exactly.

These guys were also selling two sizes of passive cyclones. Seems to me one has a 4" inlet, but the larger one may be 6". I haven't looked.

http://www.cycloneseparator.com/index2.html

[Tim Pippin]

Terry,

Thats a nice looking set up there. which motor and impeller combination did you use?

[CPeter James]

I have the Oneida 1 1/2 hp unit that I upgraded to the much larger 3 hp Gorilla external filter. It made a huge difference. That said,go with the 2 hp Dust Gorilla or something in that area. I have a 15" planner and it will easily keep up. My "ducting" consists of 25' of 5" flex hose with a 120º bend. It still works. I only use it on one machine at a time and the planner is the biggest chip producer.

CPeter

[Terry Hatfield]

Terry,

Thats a nice looking set up there. which motor and impeller combination did you use?

Tim,

It's a 5 hp compressor duty Leeson motor and a Cincinatti Fan 15.5" impeller.

t

[Dennis Peacock]

One thing to remember here as well....it's not HP that makes the total air flow difference, but the size of the impeller. A 2HP, 3450 RPM motor spinning a 10" impeller will generate as much air flow as a 10HP, 3450 RPM spinning a 10" impeller. I too have a Bill Pentz design cyclone and really could not live without it. I spent way too much money buying, upgrading, selling, buying, and upgrading.

[Terry Hatfield]

Yup....what Dennis said!!!!!!!!!

It's all abut the impeller really. As long as the motor can spn it at speed and stay under the amp rating it doesn't matter how much horsepower you have.

The 5 hp Leeson motor and a 14" impeller conmbination works super. I think that is what most folks have done. I did a bunch of impeller experimenting way back when trying to determine exactly how much impeller you could stuff into the blower and not fry the motor. That's how I ended up with mine but the 14" impeller perform quite well and stay safely under the 20.8 amp rating of the Leeson motor even with all the gates open. Mine will push the envelope of the motor if there are multiple gates open.

t