Laguna, Minimax, and Agazanni Bandsaw oners please defend your purchase.

[Ken Baker]

Went back to the show today -

Spent alot of time with Jesses from Eagle Tools - very knowledgeable, very helpful. Explained in great detail all the quality difference points between the Agazanni and the others. One point he conceeded was the upper guide system on the Minimax MM16 was much stouter - the telescoping design, than the Agazanni. He was showing me the 18" - the 18" borrows alot of design features from the 20" - the 16" is a whole different animal. He then shows in the base trunion and the inner gear how much better the 20" was thean the 18" - you can't tilt the table on the 18" without a wrench. He offered me a good deal on the 20" - at this point the only one I would onsider after seeing the differences in the 18" and the 16".

Over to Minimax - sorry for the earlier post - the E16 was the one where the door wouldn't shut - not the MM16. At one point in the day I saw him resaw a log on the MM16 for a group of people - the rest of the day he was too busy on his cell phone and didn't seem interested in seeling saws. As mentioned above the telescoping upper guide was very secure. Yes it has a higher horsepower over the Agazanni - but from what I could tell there was no other advantage over the Agazanni - and that was comparing a 16" Minimax vs a 20" Agazanni. So at that point I would have stayed with the 20" Agazanni for the same price as the 16" minimax.

Over to Laguna - was in the process of resawing a large piece of wood on the LT14SE and the machine thermally overloaded and ended that demo. So since the Laguna LT16 is similar to the LT14 I crossed it off. In my opinion on the Laguna you have to move up to the LT16Hd to get a real quality machine. But that comes at a price of about $600 more than the Agazanni 20"

So after visiting the "Top 3" - my conclusion:

Agazanni - you need to get at least the 20" model - around $2300 - the 18" is very nice too - but spend the extra couple of hundred to get the 20".

Minimax 16 - nice machine but the MM16 at $2300 was not as good of a value as the Agazanni 20" for the same price.

Laguna - You need to get at least the LT16HD - or it's no better than any other machine - but that'll cost you $2800 - so in my opinion the 20: Agazanno - still the better value.

So then I'm walking past the Jet booth - Jet WBS18X - not the regular 18 - they are offering the floor model - only setup for the show - never turned on - for $900. I couldn't pass it up.

Is the Jet as good as the 20" Agazanni - no way - but I believe it will handle my needs for the forseable future, and for more than half the price of the Agazanni.

If money is no object, and you NEED the higher quality, get the agazanni.

[Gregg Feldstone]

Thanks Ken!!

[Alan Turner]

Ken,
I have had the Aggi for several years (3 or 4) and it is an excellent saw. Jesse sets them up right, and aftermarket support is also excellent. The Aggi has a vulcanized tire that will outlive me. The only others I know that are made this way, with the rubber vulcanized on, and then turned and balanced, are the Northfield and the Zimmerman (no longer made).
Good luck on your decision.

[Ken Baker]

Yes Jesse explained the vulcanized and balanced tire - and showed that he had taken a knife and cut a slot all the way down to the metal and was still using the saw just fine.

As I said I was very impressed with the Agazanni 20" - if you need larger than a 14" saw and you need really heavy duty, - "AND" you are willing to spend over $2,000 I would absolutely buy the Agazanni 20". but only the 20" or higher - don't cheap out and get the 18" or the 16" - it's definitely not just a matter of size difference - they are very different machines. Like I said you can't even tilt the table on the 18" Agazanni without a wrench.

[Steve Wargo]

I have only a bandsaw in my shop. But I used to have a Unisaw and a 14" Jet Bandsaw. I spent a few hundred dollars making the 14" Jet work better. High tension spring, new guide system, new fence, balanced the wheels, yadda yadda. Then I purchased the Laguna 16HD. I sold the UNisaw and Jet 14" BS to pay for it. I've only one regret. I like the MM machines, but chose the Laguna because the guide system is better. I have a 4.4HP motor that resaws through 12" wide walnut like butter. My only regret is that I didn't spring for the 20" or 24" model. My next bandsaw will also be a laguna. I use it probably at least an hour (of actual cutting a week), and never do anything but change blades and clean it. Great saw.

[Travis Porter]

I have owned a Delta 14" with riser block for 10 years. I thought it was a good saw until I spent about $600 tuning it up. New tires, bearings, shims, motor, etc. After all that, it did a pretty good job, but you still could not put the proper tension on larger blades.

I recently acquired a MM24 and for what you pay, you would think some of the little things would be better. Doors not aligned, paint job not perfect, the list goes on. I suspect this is not unique to Minimax but applies to others like Agazzani and Laguna. The big difference IMO of these saws is not the finish, but the attention to detail for the things that really matter. Balanced heavy wheels, substantial cast iron tables, double belts, etc.

These comments are after I have sat back and evaluated what I got with the MM24 as when I unpacked it, I expected it to be like a new car, absolutely perfect. What I now realize, it is perfect in the areas that matter. For example, being new to the saw, I screwed up and started it with the blade not tensioned. I hit the foot brake, stopped the lower wheel, but the upper wheel spinned for almost 10 minutes. After I thought about it for a while, for it to do that, it has to be one awesome set of wheel bearings with a well balanced wheel.

IMO, most of the lower priced saws will require some type of "upgrades". The Laguna's, Minimax's, and Agazzani's require no upgrades.

[Dave A. Jackson]

I was at the show yesterday also and an MM16 is being delivered to my shop at the end of the month
Dave

[Mike Wenzloff]

Welcome to SMC, Dave.

Nice way to make your first post--with a gloat! Nice saw.

Take care, Mike

[Todd Solomon]

I know I'm coming late to the party, I just recently joined the Sawmill. But knowing how prospective buyers will search the archives, I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

There hasn't been much discussion about resaw in this thread, which is the main reason that I bought an MM16 over the venerable 14" clones. A primary issue with saws is how much tension you can put on a wide blade without appreciable frame flex. The MM16 is plenty beefy to put 30,000 psi into a 1" blade, without any noticeable deformation.

Woodworker Academy in Alemeda, CA has a Laguna 16. The owner told me it's an HD, but I don't think so. He has been dissapointed in that he was unable to tension a 1" blade. Laguna sent him heavier duty springs, but appearantly the frame stiffness wasn't sufficient. He also has an Agazzani that he uses for resaw, and a number of 14" saws for everything else. He recommended against the Laguna 16. But there are so many happy 16HD owners out there, his must be a standard Laguna 16. So personally, I wouldn't look at anything less than a 16HD.

I visited Laguna at a recent Woodworking Show, and was very impressed with their latest developments. They had a larger saw (it was either a 20 or 24") that had an impressive fence. The fence had an easy, turn of a screw adjustment to compensate for blade drift. It was the most refined fence I've seen- very nice.

A friend of mine has an Agazzani, a beautiful machine. He showed me how he was able to adjust the upper blade guide through it's full range of motion, without the guides touching the blade (only a few thousandths clearance). Pretty impressive. My MM's close to that well aligned, and I could fettle with it to get it that way. But the Agazzani was perfect, right out of the crate. He's very happy with it.

One advantage that MM has over Agazzani and Laguna is that you can adjust the lower blade guides appreciably closer to the table top, reducing blade flex during resaw or other precision cuts.

The MM16 is a fantastic saw, I have no complaints. If I were in the market today, I would look at all three- Agazzani, Laguna and MM, but probably nobody else. I would probably lean towards an MM20 with 20" resaw, because my experience with the MM16 has been terrific. Again, these three brands' heavy duty saws are in a class of their own for large resaw. For anything else, or unless you need a lot of throat depth, a well tuned 14" saw will do.

Todd

[John Shuk]

I have an LT-16. I can't justify the cost. I could have bought a less expensive saw and had less trouble. Laguna customer service was terrible as far as I was concerned. I've seen many happy customers and many unhappy. It seems to be the luck of the draw there. One of the mags just did a test and gave the Rikon the number one spot. Not based on price but on performance. Laguna was a disappointment to them especially based on price. I don't know do you get what you pay for?

[Cameron Reddy]

... They [Laguna] had a larger saw (it was either a 20 or 24") that had an impressive fence. The fence had an easy, turn of a screw adjustment to compensate for blade drift. It was the most refined fence I've seen- very nice. ...
Todd

Todd, it was a new 20" Bulgarian-made saw (like their smaller saws) called the LT20 Bowl Turner, with the new DriftMaster fence.

Laguna has told me that the new saw has been made much heavier than their other Blugarian saws, and weighs nearly 800 lbs. I can't see that in the only picture I have of the machine. The spine just doesn't look that beefy, a-la the MM20, which is a 785 lb saw.

What was your impression of the saw itself? Did it look as heavy as the MM20?

[Todd Solomon]

Todd, it was a new 20" Bulgarian-made saw

What was your impression of the saw itself? Did it look as heavy as the MM20?

Cameron,

I didn't look very closely at the rest of the saw, I was focusing on jointer / planers. It did look nice though. I've got to hand it to Laguna, Felder and Mini Max- They just keep innovating, unlike most of the american companies, that offer the same old asian clones that were designed decades ago.

A little stealth gloat- After looking at the Laguna and Mini Max jointer / planers, I ended up ordering a Felder AD741 Powerdrive 16" jointer / planer. It's the machine I've always considered the benchmark, and I finally bit the bullet and went for it.

[Cameron Reddy]

Cameron,
... I've got to hand it to Laguna, Felder and Mini Max- They just keep innovating, unlike most of the american companies, that offer the same old asian clones that were designed decades ago.
...

I've noticed that, too.

Thanks for the info.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

With Band saws you have some issues similar to planers. Bearings Bearings Bearings.

Find out what class bearings they are using and where they are using 'em. What size how many bearings , are they ball, roller, needle, tapered - - etc??

Then Adjustments adjustment adjustments.
Ya gotta take a long hard look at the points of adjustment. Some will be plainly crummy and others very good.

Then look at the casings - how they are built and from what. They are holding themselves up somehow. You don't want to put in a nice huge resaw and have the things take a twist just because you tightened it up really solid.

[Cameron Reddy]

Cliff, can you comment on any specific saws, or brands in general, with regard to the excellent criteria you just mentioned?