"Clear Vue Versus Oneida" A REAL Test

[Jay Albrandt]

Hello everyone,

I want some real data and answers. No more questions, accusations, quotes, and drama.

I got $100.00 dollars to donate to the cause of getting to the bottom of this. If it takes more, I will step up! Will you!

If there isn't any well done study that will test the various cyclones under the same conditions...lets do one!

If there isn't any well done study that will test the variety of filters that are being discussed....lets do one!

We could contract it out to Consumer Reports or even Fine Woodworking. There has got to be someone out there who can do an unbiased, independant test.

Hello, Oneida....Clear Vue.....Grizzly.....Tempest...Torit.....Wynn Environmental..... Will you back your product?

Let's do a single, well designed, head to head study. Who's with me.

Jay

ps: Maybe we could talk Keith into handling the money through the "donate" button like we have in the past.

Peace.

[Phil Thien]

I applaud your enthusiasm. However, I'm not convinced that such a test would be very straight-forward. Too many details to get two sides to agree to, like: Shop-based or lab-based test? And, how to configure ducting? You get the idea.

[John Bailey]

Lately there's been a lot of testing done. I think all the data is good, but like anything else, it's all in how you interpret the data. Each of us has different needs in our shops, therefore, the need to interpret the data in different ways. Because dust control is a fairly complex issue, one has to do a lot of research to be able to make a competent judgement for your own situation. That being said, I think most of the new cyclones will probably outperform most of the non-cyclones and do an outstanding job. So, if it were me, I'd read as much as I could and be happy with my choice, or, hire an expert and be happy with their choice.

John

[Phil Thien]

Lately there's been a lot of testing done. I think all the data is good, but like anything else, it's all in how you interpret the data. Each of us has different needs in our shops, therefore, the need to interpret the data in different ways. Because dust control is a fairly complex issue, one has to do a lot of research to be able to make a competent judgement for your own situation. That being said, I think most of the new cyclones will probably outperform most of the non-cyclones and do an outstanding job. So, if it were me, I'd read as much as I could and be happy with my choice, or, hire an expert and be happy with their choice.

John

Yep, well said.

[Ken Garlock]

Regarding the cyclone, it only has to pass the 'Willie Nelson' test.
Can it suck the chrome off a trailer hitch?

[Jim O'Dell]

About all testing cyclones is going to do, and I'm not saying this isn't good, is tell whether they perform, CFM wise, as advertised. If set up properly, it could also tell us how effecient it is at separating the dust/chips and how much of it goes to the barrell before it gets to the filters. Beyond that, it is just testing filters. Do they capture the size perticles they are advertised to capture, and at what percentage.
I don't think we need to test brand against brand. Give me the information I pointed out above and let me make the decision. But I would like to see those tests. I said in another thread, what we need is a University to apply for a government grant to do the study. Maybe we could to a write in campaign to sway the keepers of the money to approve it! Jim.

[David Giles]

We could just manifold the inlets of two cyclones, turn both on and see which one sucked dust out of the other one. Which wouldn't tell us anything except static pressure at no flow, but it would be fun.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Studies like these have likely been done, you just have to find and pay for the rights to the results. I sat on my town's planning board for many years. A coffee roaster came in looking for a permit to roast coffee and the professional he brought in had several volumes of real life test data on filtration, air flow, capacity/suspension, OSHA tests, air space recharge rates, barometric/humidity factors, etc.

Pay a pro to design a system for you and you'll have the 'best' system for your needs. They are out there ready to take your money. Two experts will no doubt design two 'best' systems that differ a bit. Pick one?

Or, buy the best DC unit you can afford and design the system yourself and spend the professional fees on something more worthwhile. No, I'm not saying protecting your health isn't worthwhile. I'm saying getting that last 10% in DC efficiency will drive you nuts and likely double your costs.

This reminds me of the occasional 'which saw blade is better' question.

I'd like to see a comprehensive head-to-head test too, but the results would likely be so specific to a set of circumstances that they would be unusable but for a few specific situations.

Mitch

[Jameel Abraham]

I would love to see a test like this. I'm currently in the market for a new collector and being a novice am torn between the 2hp Super Gorilla and the Clear Vue. I've read a good portion of Pentz's site, but the burning question for me remains this: why does the Clear Vue need 5hp to get 1400 CFM, but the Super Gorilla only needs 2hp to get the same CFM? Anyone care to explain?

[Doug Shepard]

I vote we either have Bill and Mr Witter square off on WWE Smackdown or turn the whole issue over to the Discovery Channel Myth-Busters.

[Jim DeMarco]

Let me attempt to make this easy. First I am assuming a home shop, or low production shop. Design your duct work first! A single machine is the easiest design (only one machine operating at a time). The largest draw would have to be the planner, design using this (figure ~800cfm at the machine).
Check out both air handling systems, and onidea for charts giving velocities, and equivilent length. Start at the machine, design back to the collector. When complete (it is not that difficult, fairly basic math) you will have a pipe diameter, a velocity, and a PRESSURE DROP. The pressure drop is the KEY, using your velocity and pipe diameter you can get an equivilant volumetric flow rate. Now knowing your cfm requirement at a pressure drop (inches of water) you can spec a system.

See, simple right. ha ha
I would be happy to check calcs, or assist you on this. PM or email me if you have more questions.

[Jim O'Dell]

I vote we either have Bill and Mr Witter square off on WWE Smackdown or turn the whole issue over to the Discovery Channel Myth-Busters.

While that would be fun to watch, I often question the methods they use. They can prove if something is likely to do what is said it will do, or not, but they certainly don't use many scientific checks and balances, for the most part. I still think we need to get someone in the scientific field interested in doing a government grant to study this. Of course, we'll all be gone, or won't be able to remember how to turn our tools on, by the time the study was completed. Jim.

[Cecil Arnold]

Jameel, you need to read Bill's site a little more closely. The 5 hp Leeson is loafing along with one or two blast gates open. An amp meter should indicate it is using only 2-3 hp. Open too many gates on the Oneida and you may over amp (burn up) the motor.

[Jameel Abraham]

Now I remember reading that Cecil. Bill Site is so huge that its a lot to retain, especially for a beginner. Anybody want to buy a 3hp motor?

[Cecil Arnold]

I know, I've spent way too much time there it seems.