HELP! HELP! Laser Tube Upgrade Advice Needed

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

We have a chance to upgrade from a Deos 50 watt to a 60 watt Synrad. They want us to ship our machine to them and let then convert our machine to a 60 watt Synrad, which will take more than just switching the tube out. We are hesitant to do this because we have read that the Synrad is worse at banding than the Deos. Any help or advice is much appreciated.

J&Z

[Rodne Gold]

If you have an Explorer , do it , we have nothing but trouble with Coherent sources in ours.

[Bruce Volden]

I would opt for the Synrad also. My machine manufacturer told me many times over the years that the Synrad was a better tube for the rastering and the Coherent was a better tube for cutting. Not only that, they explained why in a matter that was WAY over my head, but then I'm a little short anyway!!!


Bruce

[Frank Fusco]

I hate to be a critic.....well, no I don't.
But it sure would help of folks would tell what they are talking about before saying something.
deos? synrad? explorer? (the Ford suv?) Coherent? rastering?
What are you talking about?
Not just this post, this is common, I have clicked out of several threads today simply because I have no idea of the subject. The subject was not stated or was stated in acronymns.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, this post is in the laser engraver forum so I would assume they are talking about a laser upgrade. You can preview a post by hovering your mouse over the title. A box will pop up showing the first several lines of the post.

[Rob Bosworth]

This thread is about some one having the opportunity to have the laser power changed by the manufacture.
Synrad Corp is a laser manufacture that was recently purchased by Coherent
Deos is a laser manufacture purchased in the last year by Coherent
Explorer is a model of laser engraving machine made by GCC
Rastering is A method of engraving that is made up of a series of back and forth passes: it works will well for large fill patterns.
Vectoring combinations of x, y lines used to make up images to be laser cut.

My question to the original poster is: why are they offering to change out the laser in your machine? Are you having a specific problems with the machine you own due to the Deos laser? If so, who says? Every laser, including lasers made by the same company with the same model name or numbers, has its own quirks. Are they offering to switch out lasers because they think you deserve a "better" deal? How long is the change out going to take?

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Because we have had more than our share of problems, we've had the machine 10 months and I guess the company does think we deserve a better deal. We got the machine in December 2005, in Feburary 2006 the tube went out the first time.

[mike wallis]

I really hope that the Synrad tubes do not band as bad as Coherent tubes. My Mini tube has been plagued with with problems from the start. I went through about 4-5 tubes before I found one that was the lesser of the evils. I still have to do allot of work arounds to get a quality product.
I was really hoping that the Synrad tubes had less problems (Especially banding) and would eventually upgrade in the next few years. It's not looking good with the buyout, they will probably discontinue one of the lines over time.

[Rodne Gold]

The Explorers have had very bad reliabilty with the deos tubes , not one 30w tube in our 3 explorers have lasted more then 6 months , according to GCC it was a QC problem with the tubes??
Evidently the problems have lessened recently? The latest batch of replacement tubes seem to be lasting , Our 3 spirits with Synrad tubes work fawlessly so far. I would imagine the reason for the "upgrade" is to lessen warrantee claims and downtime on the deos based system.

Personally , I would refuse to pay the price as its not your fault that the tubes went west , you are entitled to a product that works as advertised without having to spend extra

None of these tubes band , banding is not uiquely a tube problem , its a power supply , triggering, software and motion system problem.
I doubt any of the lines would be discontinued , the merger or buyout will probably strengthen both lines due to info and R&D crossovers. Kinda like Ford buying Aston Martin etc
I think that laser tubes are way overpriced and can forsee much cheaper and more potent systems coming to market soon.

[Tom Buzz Bernard]

I personally would jump at this offer, if given the option. Not for the wattage, but to get rid of the constant deos tube issues. Would they do a 50 watt change for nothing?

[Mike Mackenzie]

I would demand that they fix it or upgrade it for no cost. You bought the system from them and they are trying to charge you more to make it work correctly. Its there problem to correct it should not cost you anything!

[mike wallis]

"None of these tubes band , banding is not uiquely a tube problem , its a power supply , triggering, software and motion system problem."

That contradicts everything Epilog and Universal has told me. I talked to the top person in Service from Epilog about 2 years ago when I was going through multiple issues and was told that all laser tubes "The main tube that is replaced" has power fluxuations within the tube. The tubes are suppose to be within a certain tolerance of fluxuation but they all fluxuate in power to some degree which results in banding if the tolerance is to far out. This proved to be true in my case, each tube fluxuated differently, some more, some less. I spent countless hours troubleshooting the source of the fluxuation and it was indeed the tube which Epilog confirmed. In the midst of trying to figure out why the machine fluxuated I called Universal to see if I were to buy a machine from them if I would run into power fluxuations/banding issues. The sales person at Universal confirmed that they all fluxuate including there's and to expect similar results with there product.

I don't think I've actually heard of anyone with a Synrad tube complain about banding and was leaning towards it on my next purchase. Anyone with a Synrad tube have banding issues especially with photographs?

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Tom,

The upgrade is not just because of banding, there have been other issues.

J&Z

[Mike Mackenzie]

Mike,

You are correct with that assumption however we have used synrad, coherent, and our laser tubes in systems. We have had banding problems with them all. We have done something to control this issue but due to the way the laser is created and how motion systems work you will see some banding with all tubes. Its funny because some tubes don't show up banding at all some right out of the box are terrible. We have seen this with tubes directly from synrad that we sent to them for repair and did not have a banding problem before we sent it to them. When we got them back and tested them they were banding. If you tune the power supplies and the motion systems, and also figure out the optimum power and speed settings for the materials you can mask the banding issue. Most people do not see this unless they are engraving out a large area or in photographs in particular materials.

[Rodne Gold]

The only time we have ever experienced banding with both deos and synrad tubes (im talking like a total of around 24 tubes in all , 12 coherents and at least the same in synrads spread over about 6 or 7 yrs and 3 platforms) is when the power to the laser is not smoothed , IE wall outlet power isnt good.
Power stability of both lasers is in the + and - 5 % mark which is very good , so there should be no discernable difference in terms of fluctuations between the 2 brands.
The only tube based problem we have had is ghosting or shadowing due to to high a trickle voltage and fixing that has been easy.
I have had no banding problems at all since using clean regulated power lines to my lasers and in one case where that didnt help , we used a 2.5kv AC to DC to AC UPS and that solved it.