Dovetail saw help needed

[Jim Reffner]

Bad Axe moved out of Superior, Wisconsin?

Nope. Just checked the Bad Axe website.

[Eric Brown]

While a thinner blade is nice it is also more likely to get bent if you are inexperienced. Hint: Let the saw do the work and don't push down on it. For me and my small hands, I ended up cutting the handle on a Tools for Working Wood dovetail saw and took a 3/4" section out. Comfort is important. I would suggest buying an inexpensive saw and taking it to the class. Look at all the saws you can while there and take notes as to what you like or don't like about each. Then if needed buy a saw you will be happy with. I would also consider the saws recently released by Blue Spruce. They look very nice.

[David Carroll]

My first "nice dovetail saw" was (still is) a Tyzack-Turner closed handle dovetail saw. It was $45 bucks from a shop in Portland Maine. At the time the only other choice out there for well made dovetail saws (apart from the mass produced ones) were the Adria and the Independence saws which were just introduced. But as I recall they were even then more than $100.00 and so were way out of my price range. Since then (1980s) I have purchased several others. The LN, as well as a couple of antique saws. Which one do I grab? The sharp one!

I know the OP has long since made his decision, but for me, I really cannot tell much difference between saws as long as they're sharp and set up well. Maybe I'm not as sensitive to the finer points of saw geometry and how it affects cutting as other folks are. But I pretty readily adapt to the saw in my hand once I have made a cut or two. Even gents saws, which I like a lot.

However, my advice would be to buy the best saw you can afford and then learn to use it. It's like a lot of things, tennis racquets, violins, and even golf clubs. You can learn to play with lesser quality at the beginning, then move up to "professional" level equipment when you are experienced enough to discern the somewhat subtle differences between the differences in quality.

Of course, learning to sharpen saws is important, the best dull saw won't cut better than a cheap saw that is sharp.

DC

[Mike Allen1010]

My first "nice dovetail saw" was (still is) a Tyzack-Turner closed handle dovetail saw. It was $45 bucks from a shop in Portland Maine. At the time the only other choice out there for well made dovetail saws (apart from the mass produced ones) were the Adria and the Independence saws which were just introduced. But as I recall they were even then more than $100.00 and so were way out of my price range. Since then (1980s) I have purchased several others. The LN, as well as a couple of antique saws. Which one do I grab? The sharp one!

I know the OP has long since made his decision, but for me, I really cannot tell much difference between saws as long as they're sharp and set up well. Maybe I'm not as sensitive to the finer points of saw geometry and how it affects cutting as other folks are. But I pretty readily adapt to the saw in my hand once I have made a cut or two. Even gents saws, which I like a lot.

However, my advice would be to buy the best saw you can afford and then learn to use it. It's like a lot of things, tennis racquets, violins, and even golf clubs. You can learn to play with lesser quality at the beginning, then move up to "professional" level equipment when you are experienced enough to discern the somewhat subtle differences between the differences in quality.

Of course, learning to sharpen saws is important, the best dull saw won't cut better than a cheap saw that is sharp.

DC

+1 we’ll said on all fronts

[Todd Zucker]

This is the Neanderthal forum. I think any thread dating back to as far back as the 1750s should not be considered a necrothread. Just continuity and part of the knowledge base.

[Mike Brady]

The moral of this story is buy your saws from Lie-Nielsen, in 2006.

[mike stenson]

The moral of this story is buy your saws from Lie-Nielsen, in 2006.

You should have been here last week...


As always.

[Tom M King]

The single most important thing about a dovetail saw, or any other backsaw, is the sharpening. All mine are old ones that were bought before there was such a thing as these newer boutique saws, yet I have no doubt they will cut as good.

[Mike Allen1010]

I think the OP poses an interesting question in the overall context of how does one allocate their $ in building a hand tool woodworking kit. Even though this is well trod ground, I can help adding my two cents. For perspective, I started with Japanese pull saws in the 70s and I've owned Western dovetail saws from Wentzloff, Lee Nielsen, Bad Axe, many vintage saws and have sharpened/restored hundreds of saws over the years. Currently I use about a dozen shop made joinery/back saws I made myself. I know that's a lot, many would say too many but I'd like to think that all optimized for specific tasks. Couple thoughts:

* Cutting hand cutting joinery and dovetails in particular is one of the hallmarks of hand tool woodworking and so for me it's an area where I think it's good ROI to make an investment in a quality saw.

* Saw set up/configuration absolutely matters. Rip configuration is absolutely better than crosscut. My personal preference is 15° of rake (which is a little easier to start than 12° of rake typically seen in full-size handsaw's), I also like to add about 5° of fleam angle in case end grain isn't perfectly straight etc. Most importantly, as little set as you can get away with. As a previous poster said, too much set means you'll have a wide kerf that is more difficult to cut straight.

* For me, plate thickness is an important consideration. For example I love my Lee Nielsen .015" thick plate dovetail saw, but typically only use it in stock less than 4/4 thick. Thin plates heat up quickly in thicker stock – not saying you can't use it, but I prefer .020" or .025" thick plates for thicker stock/longer cuts like sawing tennon shoulders. Longer cuts/thicker stock also are easier with coarser pitch/fewer points per inch like 9-13 PPI. If speed/efficiency is important to you, plate thickness also matters because thinner plates cut more quickly – e.g. thinner kerf = less material removed.

* As one of our fellow Neanders tagline says, "sharp solves all matter problems". A sharp, well tuned saw (e.g. rake, fleam, slope angles and set appropriate for the thickness of saw plate), is priority one.

* Japanese pull saws are sharp, accurate, reasonably affordable, easy to handle and cut reasonably quickly. Only downside for me is I can't resharpen them and teeth are delicate and prone to break/bend if your technique isn't great. I bought some of these for high school shop class I teach and they lasted about a week before they were unusable – but that's pretty tough crowd. The mostly adult, college beginning woodworking class I teach, they lasted a little longer, but none made it through the semester unscathed.

* Given the variables described above, evaluating/deciding on dovetail saw that's right for you is an area where it's super helpful to be able to try out various options based on your skill level kind of stock you use etc. See if you can find a fellow woodworker in your area that can give you an opportunity to experiment.

Just my food for thought,, YMMV.

Cheers, Mike