New Garage/Workshop (Long)

[Frank Snyder]

Well...just for the heck of it, I decided to get a quote for a concrete driveway (and apron) from a new contractor today and it came in $2K less than what it would cost me in materials to do a paver driveway. I'm thinking this is a no brainer, right? He's going to fax me a quote in writing and I'll talk it over with the wife tonight. We could still do a paver border to try and soften it up a bit. But honestly, $2K is a significant savings and the fact that I could spare myself the additional labor is very appealing. We'll still do the pavers for the back patio, but that is a weekend project by comparison.

We're getting some pretty severe thunderstorms today, so I had to wrap it up earlier than I had expected. This week's forecast is calling for storms pretty much every day (again), so I will work as the weather allows.

[Steve Clardy]

Yea. 2 grand would be a go for me.

[Norman Hitt]

Hey, Frank, with a $2,000 savings, maybe you could get Part of that drive with Radiant Heat after all. Just think, less Shovel Time = More Shop Time.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Especially in snow country, I'd go with concrete instead of pavers, even without the $2K difference. I would think even the best paver installation will eventually be more succeptible to freeze/thaw problems than concrete. (I've been involved in quite a bit of paving in climates that freeze.) And to heck with the neighbors hating you, Norman has a great idea about putting the savings into heat.

The shop's looking great, Frank!

[Matt Warfield]

Yep, pavers are a real pain to remove snow from. Best way is a stiff rubber blade on a snow plow and even then, the pavers will gradually move around and it won't look too good in 10 years or so. Softening the edges with pavers is a great idea. And don't forget about the possibility of staining or tinting the concrete.

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the suggestions. My wife and I discussed this last night and we agree that the concrete makes a lot of sense. I signed the proposal this morning and they should start work within a week or so.

As cozy as a paver driveway may appear, it is a pain to shovel (as many of you have pointed out), it can settle unevenly over time, weeds have a tendancy of popping up between the joints, and it is a LOT of labor to install. We're still going to install the paver patio ourselves, but this we can handle.

Our last driveway was concrete and it had spalled really bad, most likely from the salt during the winters. I'm told that sealing the concrete every other year will help prevent this from happening, so if that's the only maintenance it needs, I can handle that.

Heating the driveway is a great idea, but I'm pretty sure it would be more than $2K worth of materials (my driveway is about 800 square feet). It would also mean that we would want to heat the patio, or at least the path from the garage to the house and the house to the driveway, so that no shoveling would be required, and this would also add to the additional cost.

Since I'm already over budget, the $2K savings will help us get back on track with our expenses.

We got hammered with storms and rain again yesterday. Boy did I pick the wrong year to do this project...

[Rob Russell]

You can probably add radiant heat to your driveway for less than the $2K you saved. You can even do it in stages. The big thing would be to lay the tubing in now as part of the driveway pour. You could hold off adding the hot water heater, pumps, plumbing and wiring until later on.

Just a thought.

[Art Mulder]

You can probably add radiant heat to your driveway for less than the $2K ....

Rob and everyone else... are you serious? People actually DO put radiant heat in driveways? Doesn't that take like a stupidly huge amount of energy to run?

Frank, which way does your driveway face? Mine faces almost directly south. In the winter I love it, because the the sun comes out and warms up that black asphalt and helps keep the driveway clear of snow. Yes, I still need to shovel, but the sun helps when the accumulation is small, and helps "clean up" after I shovel larger snowfalls.

[Frank Snyder]

Rob-

For my garage slab, the PEX tubing and Insultarps came in at around $1100. Granted, the slab required more PEX for the tighter spacing so I could acheive 70 degree temperatures when its zero outside, whereas the driveway only needs to keep the surface temperature above freezing so the spacing would be greater (less PEX). I'd also be compelled to do the same for the back patio which serves as a pass through to the garage, house and driveway, so I would need to add that as well. You're probably right about the PEX and tarps running less than $2K, but I'm not sure where I would put the boiler and how I would route the circuits to the manifold. There's the venting for the boiler, the gas supply, etc... which all needs to be considered, even if I don't install it right away. The circuits all need to terminate to that location and I'm not sure where that would be. Electric radiant heat would require less planning, but the cost is more (around $4K when I checked about a year ago) and the cost to operate would most likely be more as well.

In all honesty, coming from where we've been when we had a driveway that was 8ft. wide, sandwiched between our house and the neighbors fence with little room to displace the snow, and a concrete driveway that had spalled so bad that some previous owner laid asphalt on half of the driveway (idiot), so the surface itself was cracked and breaking apart, I'm actually looking forward shoveling a smooth surface driveway with room to displace the snow. This was one of the compelling reasons for us to relocate our driveway to the opposite side of our property. While I can appreciate the luxury of heating your driveway so you don't have to shovel it, I'm not so sure I would be content sitting inside while I watch my neighbors slave on theirs. I would be compelled to suit up and give them a hand. So either way, I'd be shoveling someone's driveway.

[Russ Massery]

Same here Frank, I was going to paver the front patio. The quote for concrete was less then materials for the pavers. Anr they did all the work!.

[Frank Snyder]

Art-

My driveway and house face South, but the driveway is still flanked by my house and my neighbors house, so it only gets direct sunlight in the AM. I'm no stranger to hard work, so shoveling will not be a problem for me. Again, I'll be happy just to be able to push the shovel along without any hang-ups and have lots of room to displace the snow.

[Art Mulder]

I'm not so sure I would be content sitting inside while I watch my neighbors slave on theirs. I would be compelled to suit up and give them a hand. So either way, I'd be shoveling someone's driveway.

Now that is the best answer yet. I think I'd feel the same way. There's a great sort of camaradarie out there on mornings after big storms when you're all out shovelling. Everyone knows they're going to be late for work, but no one cares. You're all shovelling, and giving each other a hand.

Besides, I have four kids, (3 sons), who need to learn discipline and the value of work.

[Mike Spanbauer]

Lol... I've 2 boys Art, and I've never lived in an environment until 3 years ago that I DIDN'T have to shovel or lend a hand when it snowed.

I may move back to Colorado when they turn 12 just to ensure they endure the *fun* :P

I'm w/ you by the way Frank, I usually lived in an area where there were 1 or more retiree's and often a widower who I always ensured that she didn't shovel. She would never ask, was always kind to neighbors, and would start shoveling by herself as soon as she could get outside. Being 20something at the time I lived there, I was able to complete my drive and 150' of walks (corner lot) and then complete hers before I left for work in the morning.

mike

[Frank Snyder]

IT'S DONE!!!!! The driveway, that is. My contractor stopped by yesterday afternoon and asked if I was ready for him. Duh? They got right to work, set up the forms, graded and compacted the existing gravel. This morning, they did the pour with 6-1/2 bag mix with fiber-mesh. By noon, they began excavating for the apron in the parkway. This took a little while, since it runs right up to a tree and the root system was pretty robust. Lots of time spent on the sawzall and axe. We had the city's arborist come out and inspect the roots once we excavated to make sure they would be okay. I'm told that Silver Maples can withstand some root damage and it should not be jeopardized by the excavating they did. By 3pm, they had the concrete poured for the apron. By 5pm they were done. I can't imagine how long it would've taken me to lay the pavers. Tomorrow, once it has cured a little longer, I'll spray a coat of sealer on it.

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I'm also hoping to get the siding painted this weekend...probably Sunday. I still have some more soffit work to finish up, then I can paint. Between my wife and I, we should be able to get it painted within a day. The trick is to have one person roll while the other one brushes over.

Our garage door is being delivered on Monday (finally). I hope to get my dad out here to have him give me a hand installing it (he's done a few). Plus, the delivery truck can't pull in the driveway (not supposed to drive on it for a week), so I'll need his help getting it from the street to the garage.

I'll post more pictures as we progress. I can't wait until it snows so I can shovel our new driveway .

[Marty Walsh]

Frank,

Terrific job on the driveway. As you know, I loathe subbing out any part of my shop. But sometimes it just makes sense. It looks like this was "one of those times" for you.

Good luck with the garage door.

- Marty -