New Garage/Workshop (Long)

[Vaughn McMillan]

Very nice job Frank. I had missed your initial posts, but it looks like you're making great progress. Something tells me you and Marty Walsh could build a small town in a few weekends if you teamed up together.

- Vaughn

[Marty Walsh]

Vaughn,

I was just sitting here thinking I could sure use Franks help. He seems to keep my kind of pace...agressive...

Frank,

Looking REAL good! Wish I could be as far along as you are in such a short time. But then again, my shop is just a tad larger...

- Marty -

[Andy Hoyt]

Frank: If I read this correctly

I hope to get the rest of the rafters in place tomorrow and get the valley/jack rafters cut for the intersecting roof lines. I should be ready to sheath the roof by Wednesday and .....

It would indicate that you're doing open valleys as opposed to crickets. Much more difficult to execute regardless of experience; and results in a much more useable area underneath the roof. Outstanding!

[jud dinsmore]

nice to see you keeping the open cornice to match the house. your library will probably have those framing videos (that's where i got mine from). check out fine homebuilding #161 for more info on framing valleys. the name of the article is titled "framing a roof valley". it is a pretty tight little article on how to frame the exact type of valley you intend on framing. good luck.

jud

[Bob Marino]

As impressive as this project is, Frank's kitchen project is at least as cool. Frank, if you haven't posted the kitchen pics already, let's see em'.

Bob

[Rich Stevens]

Rich: I don't know if my workshop is a fair comparison with present day builders...because I'm building this for myself, I take whatever time and use whatever resources I need to do this job the best way I can. It's a personal thing and a pride thing. Present day builders/contractors make their living by building things as quickly as they can. The longer they take, the less money they make, so the workmanship is often compromised. Framing gets covered with sheathing or sheetrock, so no one sees what corners they cut, and as long as they pass their inspections, it becomes acceptable practice. I'm not building this workshop to make a profit, so I can spend all sorts of time figuring things out and use time consuming building techniques.


Frank - you're too humble!

Even if you say that this is a personal and pride thing, I am still very impressed how quickly you're moving along with the contruction of your garage/shop. Its movin along at a good pace...!

I will concede that it isn't a fair comparison to make between your project and the construction of a house, but I would challenge you that the are other differences in construction technique/approach which makes up the difference.

Yours is being built essentially from un-cut lengths of lumber - some as big as 10 x 2's. Here is Australia (over on the east coast) houses are built with internal timber frames and an (mostly) external skins of brick and mortar. With the timber frames, a large proportion of the components such as roof trusses are pre-fab'ed in a factory and delivered to site. In many cases also, so are the internal wall frames. Carpenters are basically assembling frames rather than building from scratch. And yes they may be fast, but they're still making big money. It is essentially a race to build as quickly and as cheaply as the regulations will allow them.

[I know this because a former neighbour of mine who started off as a framing contractor and is now into house construction told me that the best money a carpenter can make comes from house framing, not internal finish/trim work - he reckons customers somehow see the house frame as really "complex" part of the project and are resigned to paying a lot to for it. Framers know this and charge accordingly]

Another issue I have is as timber becomes more scarce, the sizes of timber being used for construction diminishes to the point where the entire roof and wall sections looks like a mass of tangled matchsticks with all the cross bracing that's required. This really sucks but I guess is reality.

I have spent the last three weekends installing glass wool insulation in the roof space above my workshop ceiling. It took the best part of 8 hours in total worming my way through the roof trusses to lay the insulation in an area of only 350 sq feet. I'll bet you won't have that problem when its time to do yours.

In the meantime, keep up the great work!

Rich

[Frank Snyder]

Sorry for the delay...I've been under the gun trying to get as much done before the thunderstorms arrive. It turned out that it took a detour around Illinois, headed north towards Michigan, then proceeded south to Indiana. Talk about luck...

I spent Monday installing the subflooring for the attic. I used 4x8 3/4" T&G plywood sheets, glued and ring-shank nailed to the joists. Having a floor up there really makes the rafter work much easier and safer than tip-toeing on the joists.

On Tuesday, I began filling in the more of the common rafters, hung a beveled header for the intersecting rooflines, installed the ridge board for the smaller roof and I spent the rest of the day trying to figure out the valley rafter cuts. Having the exposed rafter tails converge into plane takes some intensive trial and error. By the end of the day, I had a working template which I could use for the final cut.

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continued...

[Frank Snyder]

Wednesday's forecast was originally supposed to bring strong thunderstorms by noon, so I was up early trying to get as much work done before they arrived. I cut the final valley rafters to fit, and finished off all of the main roof's common rafters. All that I have left is the compound rafter cuts for the valleys. Unfortunatley, I ran out of 2x8's, so I had to go pick some more up this evening.

I should be able to crank out the remaining rafters tomorrow if the weather holds up, then sheath the roof on Friday. Our weather forecast has been a bit unpredictable as of late, so I will have to play the shingling by ear. We keep getting these severe weather warnings but nothing transpires...yet.

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Marty: Your workshop project looks fantastic. I can only dream about working in that kind of space. I need guys like Stu and his dungeon to make me feel better about my workspace.

Andy: You read correctly...and I agree with you. They are HARD to implement but I need every square inch for storage so they are worth it to me.

Bob: I should probably start another thread for the kitchen project I did last year...I will work on this tonight. Thanks for the suggestion and your encouragement. (I started a new thread at http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=41764)

Rich: You have my sympathies for having to jungle-gym your way through your truss attic to insulate. I planned on just tacking R-38 insulation from the underside of the CJ's before I drywall.

I will follow up with more updates before the weekend. Thanks again for the encouragement.

[Marty Walsh]

Frank,

Kudos for the job you're doing on the roof. I don't know that I'd have the patience to deal with all the complex angles. (Probably why I designed my shop as a simple gable with a relatively low pitch. Oh wait, never mind...I went with trusses anyway! )

Hope the weather holds out for you. We've been getting storms that start every day by 1-2 in the afternoon for the last week or more. I'm sure getting tired of sweeping water off the deck before I can get work.

- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

Finally...the roof is all framed out. The weather really messed up this week's productivity, but it's supposed to clear up after the weekend. I just need to hang the barge rafters tomorrow, then I will begin sheathing the gables and the roof. The shingles are being delivered Monday, so hopefully, I can knock out the roofing over the course of next week.

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[Art Mulder]

Frank,

Looking real good.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you are working at this full time. Are you on an extended vacation, or is woodworking (going to be) your career?

Also, I see from the plans that you have allowance for the car in there. Is that just for rare occaisions, or will it be in there all the time? That makes for an awkward shop.

Are you going to insulate the ceiling, or put the insulation up under the roof?


Great job on the roof, by the way. That'll give you a lot of attic space.

best,
...art

[Andy Hoyt]

Nice job on the valleys and the birdsmouth cuts, Frank.

Of course, the real test of that comes when it's time to slap up the fascia.

But I got faith in ya.

[Frank Snyder]

Art -

You mentioned in an earlier post that you are working at this full time. Are you on an extended vacation, or is woodworking (going to be) your career?

Good question. I sure do like the idea of the commute from my back door to my garage (a whopping 10 feet). Sure beats an hour-plus train ride downtown. I do IT consulting, and project-based employment affords me some flexibility with my time. I'm not a professional woodworker, but who knows...

Also, I see from the plans that you have allowance for the car in there. Is that just for rare occaisions, or will it be in there all the time? That makes for an awkward shop.

I agree that having the car in the garage makes for an akward shop. However, I have to make the best of what space I have, and given that reality, I plan to deal with it accordingly. Most of my equipment is mobile, so I can expand and contract with the extra space as necessary, depending on what kind of project I'm working on. Considering what I had prior to this new workshop (a 10x10 tent on my back patio or having to use other peoples workshops), this is a huge improvement for me. If I had the space, I would follow Marty's example.

Are you going to insulate the ceiling, or put the insulation up under the roof?

I planned on using R-38 fiberglass insulation inside the ceiling joists (not the rafters) and R-13 in the walls, so the attic will not be climate controlled.

Great job on the roof, by the way. That'll give you a lot of attic space.

Thanks. This was my first time framing a roof. It was a valuable learning experience. I'm looking forward to having the extra storage space.

[Marty Walsh]

Art -


Good question. I sure do like the idea of the commute from my back door to my garage (a whopping 10 feet). Sure beats an hour-plus train ride downtown. I do IT consulting, and project-based employment affords me some flexibility with my time. I'm not a professional woodworker, but who knows...

Another IT sawdust maker...go figure...

...

If I had the space, I would follow Marty's example.

Frank, be careful what you wish for. Seeing how quickly and cleanly your shop is going up, I almost envy you not having to deal on the scale I'm dealing with!

As folks have already said, things are looking great. Keep it up, and keep the posts coming.

Thanks...
- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

Andy -

Thanks for the compliments and your faith . I briefly considered doing the inside double-bevel rip on the valley rafters, but I took the easy way out and just dropped them enough for the sheathing.

Of course, the real test of that comes when it's time to slap up the fascia.

I already snapped lines across my rafter tails and cut them to plane and plumb using my Festool guide rail and saw. If my narrow fascia boards have any warp in them, it won't be due to the rafter tail lengths. I originally thought I go with 24" overhangs on the eves, but with the 10/12 pitch on the roof, they looked a little too long, so I cut them back to 18".

I'm only using 1x5's for the fascia boards to help support the gutters. The rest of the rafter tails are exposed, as are the eves. They get primed and painted, and I'm installing decorative wainscotting underneath the eves to match the house. The first story gets 6-1/4" fiber cement lap siding, and the gables get fiber cement shingles. There's also alot of exterior trimwork that gets installed. I'll post pictures as I progress.

Thanks again.