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Thread: Birth of a shop

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Birth of a shop

    This has been a LONG time coming, but I’m finally ready to break ground on my new shop. I’ve been reading all the ‘new shop’, ‘shop remodel’, and ‘shop advice’ threads on here for quite some time. I’ve incorporated quite a few things I learned on here and wouldn’t have otherwise thought of. For that, I thank all the SMC’ers for your shared experiences and expertise!

    Some of you might recall a few threads I’ve started or participated in regarding various aspects of wooden floors in a shop. My previous shops have had concrete floors and I’ve never liked them. Besides being hard on tools that inevitably get dropped, I find them very tough on the legs and back after long hours of standing.

    With input from Frank and others on here, utilizing piers and beams along with an engineered system of I-joists and LVL’s, I’m going to finally get my wood floors. I know there are some of you out there that don’t believe in the engineered products, but after exhaustive research, conversations with the local building inspector and a few contractors, I believe the benefits I’ll be seeing will make them worth it.

    I’m doing this ONCE and I have the room, so I’m going pretty big. It’s going to be 40’ wide, by 64’ long, with 10’ ceilings. (That just might keep the “go larger” comments to a minimum!)

    Before I post a few diagrams, let me take a minute to thank Dave Richards, without whose assistance, I’d still be floundering in Sketchup. I modeled the entire shop in Sketchup. I’ve done quite a bit of remodeling, and a few large deck projects, but I’ve never tackled an entire structure from start to finish, nevermind ALONE! The decisions I’ve had to make and the choices I’ve had to deal with have been almost overwhelming. Sketchup allowed me to make changes, find potential problems, and fine-tune details, all without lifting a tool or wasting any material. Creating a true-to-scale model with all the details also allowed me to create an accurate material list. It was a lot of work, but I think it was time well spent. I guess I’ll find out when I get going!

    Ok, here are a few different views of the shop. Since this is a Sketchup model, I can take snapshots of any detail I want or need to. And since it was done with layers, I can isolate every aspect of the model. It was also pretty cool to be able to virtually 'walk around' inside the model.

    Front
    Attachment 39129


    Back
    Attachment 39130

    Pier layout:
    Attachment 39131

    Attic Space
    Attachment 39132

    Floor Plan
    Attachment 39133

    Foundation:
    This will be an open foundation pier and beam system. There will be four rows of seven piers (28). Each pier will consist of a 12” diameter 4’ long concrete filled Quik-Tube (Quikrete brand of Sona-Tubes), sitting on a 2’ x 2’ concrete cookie with two L-shaped pieces of 3/8” rebar embedded in each cookie, extending up into the concrete tubes. Since there’s no frost line here, and the flooring engineer specified a minimum clearance of 16” between dirt and the flooring, I’m planning to sink the piers roughly 2.5 feet into the ground. Since the I-joists will straddle the two center beams, the two center rows of piers will be sunk about a foot deeper. Topping each pier will be a block of pressure treated 2x10 attached using Simpson MAB23 straps. The double LVL’s in the floor system will be nailed to these 2x10’s. Once I have the piers installed, I plan to have the ground treated with termidor (or equivalent). I’ll then put down a 6 mil plastic vapor barrier, which I’ll cover with pea gravel.

    Floor:
    As I said, this is going to be an engineered floor system, using Trus-Joist “I-beams” and “LVLs”. The floor has been designed for 150lb/sq ft live load, and 20/lb/sq ft dead load. A standard residential floor is 40/live 20/dead, so this is about four times stronger. I’m not sure it would handle the load of a shop full of Dev’s caliper of equipment, but it’ll be plenty strong enough for my needs. It’ll be topped with 7/8” T&G Advantech sheathing, which will add to the strength and rigidity. I’ll be adding fiberglass insulation between each truss in the floor. I’m also planning to run hardware cloth across the underside of the trusses in hopes of keeping out a majority of the critters. (Thanks Frank for the idea!)

    Walls:
    I posted a thread about ceiling height a short while back, asking about 12’ high ceilings. That’s what I originally planned, but have since changed to a 10’ height. I don’t think the additional two feet would be a benefit, and it would be harder to light, and more space to cool and heat. All walls, including interior ones, will be 2 x 6 construction…more room for insulation, and wiring, and I just prefer the beefier walls. Instead of sheetrock, I plan to cover the walls and ceiling with 15/32” OSB. It’s lighter, easier to install, and in my mind more flexible for mounting cabinetry and other wall-hung doo-dads.

    Windows:
    I knew I wanted loads of natural lighting. I also knew I didn’t want the windows interfering with wall outlets, work surfaces, or sheet goods leaning against the wall, so I’ve placed them 56” high. There will be three on the front, three on the back, all of them being double wide, double hung units 80” wide by 48” high. I’ve also added a pair of large windows in the office space. Each will be 72” wide by 80” high. The view out of each will justify the cost and work…at least that’s the way I see it.

    Porch:
    I wasn’t originally going to put a porch on the shop, but the more played with the model, I wanted one to block some of the sun and afford me a comfortable place to go regardless of the weather when I just need to walk away from a project. Sketchup allowed me to create it virtually, allowing me to know EXACTLY what materials would be involved so I could determine what the cost would be. In the grand scheme of things, it’s only a few more studs, 9 more pieces of sheathing and 2.5 more bundles of shingles, so a porch will be included!

    Attic:
    I had originally planned on a 4:12 roof since I don’t like doing roofing, especially on a steeply peaked roof, and that's the minimum pitch I could get away with using standard architectural shingles. But, when I was working with the local truss company, we did a few ‘what-if’ models and he showed me the ‘room-in-attic’ truss system. The cost was almost the same for the attic room, and all I needed to do was change to a 5:12 pitch. It buys me 64’ of 10’ wide 6’ high storage space. He also beefed up the vertical webs in the trusses so I could hang the motor for a cyclone from them. I plan to have the air handler for my HVAC system, dust collection and my compressor up there, as well as all sorts of assorted storage…jigs, materials, etc. I plan to cover the floor of this attic space with 23/32” OSB, and the walls and ceilings with 15/32” OSB.

    Electrical:
    I haven’t even begun modeling the electrical for the shop. I plan to do that once I get the structure under cover. I’d rather be standing in the space visualizing where things will go, and where I’ll need power, than to speculate and waste time having to re-do things once I’m in the structure. I plan several banks of fluorescent strips over-head, each on a separate circuit. I also envision some track lighting over benches, and maybe machines, but I’ll decide that once I get to stand in the building.

    Tool placement:
    I’m handling this the same way as the electrical. Until I get the structure done, I don’t want to plan anything. Not to mention, I’ll be adding several larger tools since I’ll now have the space.

    There you have it…at least the way it’s currently planned. I value the opinions of everyone here, so I’m open to changes (within limits and budget). If any of you folks see anything glaringly wrong, or omitted, please let me know.

    I’m off now to get the price quotes from the three vendors I have competing. Once I choose the primary vendor, I’ll be ordering the Quik-tubes, which should take about a week to arrive. I’ll be outside either later today or tomorrow, doing some site-prep work, then putting in my batter strips and laying out the actual location of all the piers. That reminds me, I need more string…

    Pictures WILL follow! I’ll try to update this thread as often as makes sense, which might be as frequent as every day, or as infrequent as once a week, depending on where I am in the process.

    Frank has certainly raised the bar on ‘shop construction’ threads. I doubt I’ll live up to his high standard, but hopefully this will be beneficial to others. I know I’ll benefit from the wealth of knowledge I can tap into here…

    Thanks for following…
    - Marty -
    Last edited by Marty Walsh; 11-30-2006 at 7:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Marty.............Good luck with the project and be sure to post photos along the way. I was making good progress on my new shop.....Then got sidelined by the turners here and work. I hope to get back and finish mine shortly.

    Enjoy and keep us posted!
    Ken

  3. #3
    way cool marty! sound like all your ducks are in a row. this last weekend i suggested to another fellow on the forum to look into an electrical "raceway" down the center of his shop, i ran mine and the trunk for the dust collector right down the center. by using a raceway you`ll afford yourself flexability in tool placement and additions as well as save money on conduit costs if you pull lotsa circuits.........just something else to look into..thanks for the thread..02 tod
    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN; I ACCEPT FULL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY POSTS ON THIS FORUM, ALL POSTS ARE MADE IN GOOD FAITH CONTAINING FACTUAL INFORMATION AS I KNOW IT.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans
    way cool marty! sound like all your ducks are in a row. this last weekend i suggested to another fellow on the forum to look into an electrical "raceway" down the center of his shop, i ran mine and the trunk for the dust collector right down the center. by using a raceway you`ll afford yourself flexability in tool placement and additions as well as save money on conduit costs if you pull lotsa circuits.........just something else to look into..thanks for the thread..02 tod
    Tod,

    Thanks for reminding me. I read that comment of yours over the weekend. Are you referring to a product like this: http://cableorganizer.com/wire-duct/closed-slot.html ?

    Or do I get creative and use 6" S&D pipe and poke holes where I need them? Or is there something else I should use?

    I'll certainly have the room to run the raceway up in that attic space...

    Did you run Romex in your raceway? Did you run extra in anticipation of new needs, or just leave room for expansion?

    - Marty -

  5. #5
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    Marty, great plan! Wish I could have started "fresh" on mine. I'm jealous of the 10' ceilings. I look forward to watching your updates. One of these days, if money turns around, I'll get back to my shop and finish it where I can actually use it. Jim.
    Coolmeadow Setters...Exclusively Irish! When Irish Eyes are smiling....They're usually up to something!!
    Home of Irish Setter Rescue of North Texas.
    No, I'm not an electrician. Any information I share is purely what I would do myself. If in doubt, hire an electrician!
    Member of the G0691 fan club!
    At a minimum, I'm Pentatoxic...Most likely I'm a Pentaholic. There seems to be no known cure. Pentatonix, winners of The Sing Off, s3.

  6. #6
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    love the shop.. great design and size

    best wishes and keep up all posted as to the progress
    lou

  7. #7
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    Marty.......... a lot of the floor ducts I've worked around were just a trough recessed into the floor. A normal cover is just set into to it. A wooden trough say.....8" deep and say 10" wide.....with a rabbeted edge 1 1/2 or even 3/4" deep so you could put a 1x 12 or 2x12 in the opening. By doing this you can place the openings any where you want. Typically in concrete some people put a 1/4" rabbet so a piece of 1/4" steel can be used. Again...it allows some flexibility in hole placement for entrances and exits to tools.
    Ken

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Walsh
    Tod,

    Thanks for reminding me. I read that comment of yours over the weekend. Are you referring to a product like this: http://cableorganizer.com/wire-duct/closed-slot.html ?

    Or do I get creative and use 6" S&D pipe and poke holes where I need them? Or is there something else I should use?

    I'll certainly have the room to run the raceway up in that attic space...

    Did you run Romex in your raceway? Did you run extra in anticipation of new needs, or just leave room for expansion?

    - Marty -
    marty, what i did was have the local sheetmetal shop break 5` sections of 14ga galvanized metal into a "u" shape 6wx4h, then break a 6-1/8wx 3/4 "u"shaped lid. i welded the trough together in the attic&90`d down to the panel. leave the lid sections 5` for easy access. a standard stud-punch makes perfect holes for ridgid emt connectors. drill-n-tap for 1/4-20 lid bolts and you`re good to go.
    no i didn`t use any romex in my shop at all, even the lights are wired with 10ga, all the lighting circuits are switched via contactors from one switch, compressors, same way only 4ga wire for their run. so when i come in in the morning i throw 2 switches and i`ve got lights-n-air, outside security lights another contactor and switch...some food for thought..02 tod
    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN; I ACCEPT FULL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY POSTS ON THIS FORUM, ALL POSTS ARE MADE IN GOOD FAITH CONTAINING FACTUAL INFORMATION AS I KNOW IT.

  9. #9
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    Marty, that looks real good. I'm envious of all that space you'll have. Good work on the drawings, too.

  10. #10
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    Marty, the modeling looks great and that's going to be a super shop!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
    Looks like a great start!!!!


  12. #12
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    Marty, that is going to be an amazing workshop! It will have more space than we have in the combination of our house and my shop.

    I am very happy to have been of help, and thanks for the credit that you gave to me.

    That's a nice job that you did with Sketchup. I wish that I had had it available to me when I designed my shop. It would have helped me a lot.

    I am really looking forward to hearing about and seeing your progress.

  13. #13
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    Great Start. But how about the floor? I am a bit nervous about the floor and most folks know why.
    Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Walsh
    Foundation:

    Floor:
    As I said, this is going to be an engineered floor system, using Trus-Joist ďI-beamsĒ and ďLVLsĒ. The floor has been designed for 150lb/sq ft live load, and 20/lb/sq ft dead load. A standard residential floor is 40/live 20/dead, so this is about four times stronger. Iím not sure it would handle the load of a shop full of Devís caliper of equipment, but itíll be plenty strong enough for my needs. Itíll be topped with 7/8Ē T&G Advantech sheathing, which will add to the strength and rigidity. Iíll be adding fiberglass insulation between each truss in the floor. Iím also planning to run hardware cloth across the underside of the trusses in hopes of keeping out a majority of the critters. (Thanks Frank for the idea!)
    LOL.... Didnt see this part of the post. When someone asked my brother and I about the best way to build a building these days... we both blurted out in unison...

    SYTROFOAM.........CONCRETE......and OAK!

    It was funny to hear this come out the way it did....
    Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.

  15. #15
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    While that's a good start for a shop, you still need to make it bigger!

    Murphy's Law #4 "The amount of junk you accumulate equals the square of the place you have to store it."

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