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Thread: Corian Dye-Sub Project - Peek-A-Boo

  1. #16

    ooops!

    Sorry Jeff, it's www.transferit.net now. I also use www.conde.com for supplies as well as about fifteen others. Each one has it's own best deal.
    Michael
    Michael

    Nighthawk Arts

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    Methow, WA
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    AAron,

    That's nice to know. I've been out of it for quite awhile. Glad the prices have moderated a bit. Maybe I should look into it again, but with my laser printer and transfer paper.

    Thanks for the info..

    Carla Lange

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Hayes, Virginia
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    I have a dozen or so Corian Dye-Sub projects in the shop that I am working on now. Although this technique is a bit pricey it isn't for everyone. Most of my customers are commercial businesses and the cost doesn't seem to be a big issue. Part of my business plan is to stay away from jobs that the traditional sign shops and laser engraving companies in my area provide. I expect this is why I haven't tried the more traditional dye-sub materials, I am always looking for something different and the reason is that my competitors are already there. I have no interest in competing on price point so I look for new products and techniques that my competitors don't provide.

    I also find that these types of projects are excellent for breaking the ice when marketing a new client. The large corporations are the most difficult to get your foot in the door, having something unique to show them generally will get you into a decision makers office or at the very least a meeting.

    A little research into a companies past will generally provide some kind of graphic or slogan that can be beneficial. If the company has been in business a long time I frequently look for very old newspapers and reproduce their advertisements. Remember that if your company is a new startup you don't have a commercial resume', you will often will be excluded from bidding large projects. The ability to produce something that your competition can't may get you an opportunity to compete even though you are new to the business.

  4. #19
    Keith...I question the 30 year life of the sublimated corian outside in the environments. The inkjet sublimation product has not been able to withstand much more that a few months of UV exposure.

    Doug

  5. #20
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    Feb 2003
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    Douglas,

    The 30 year figure is just what I have read, obviously it is a techical guess based on some kind of formula and lab testing. I don't know any other material that is normally used for dye-sub that is simular to Corian so the results could very well be a very long exterior service life span. Since the ink doesn in fact penetrate the surface it would seem possible.

    I am willing to bet that it will easilly outlast paint and the more traditional color techniques

  6. #21
    Keith, I only mention what I have learned from over 4 years in the sublimation market. It is dangerous to be selling a product and over stating it's real life. There are many of us that have been searching for a way to lengthen the UV life of the process, from multiple overcoats to various substrates. The entire process of sublimation is that the gas generated from the combination of the ink and heat, will penetrate into the product, or, below the surface.

    Keith, perhaps you could share where you read such information, I for one would be greatly interested in such a life span...it would open up a huge market.

    I would like to suggest that anyone wanting to get into sublimation to corian, search out hard data before talking about 30 years life on the image.

    Doug

  7. #22

    Hmmm

    Douglas,
    I have had some pieces outdoor usage on wood, metal and sandstone (none in Corian) and even in some diect sunlight with no appreciable loss for better than a couple of years.

    I spray the pieces with "Frog Juice" before exposing them and I found that really extends their life. I don't know about thirty years, but hey, if I can get signage for 5 years, I consider it a winner!
    Michael
    Michael

    Nighthawk Arts

  8. #23
    Michael...as always with UV, exposure is the key. In the northern hemisphere, we tend to get longer life..go south and it starts to diminish considerably.

    Yes, I have played with Frog Juice and here in the NW, I too have had good luck for 2-3 years.

    I guess my point was that before one sells a product for outdoor use and indicating an extended life such as 10,15,or 30 years, one should find solid testing results to back it up.

    Sublimation can be a great product, fustrating at times (but what isn't?), and the results can be stunning.

    I've been playing with the OEM laser transfer technology for the last two years and that has some interesting results also. I like it for wood much more than the dye sub.

    Doug

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
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    145

    Artainium Ink

    Is it essential to use Artainium Ink? Will the Sawgrass brand not work?
    Pressing for 20 minutes is about 20 times longer than I have ever used before, and I would have to find a way of disabling the alarm on my press which goes off after a maximum of 35 seconds.
    I agree with others about the difficulties involved with Sublimation. It's hardly worth the time with the print head blockages, colour matching and fading. I no longer push the process unless I can't do the job any other way and I have been doing it more than 6 years. (Obviously not too well)

  10. #25
    Hilton...I would expect Sawgrass to work just as well as the Artanium...especially now that they are both owned by Sawgrass and there is some speculation that they are in fact, one and the same. They are even packaged in the same plant in Colorado.

    I must have missed the 20 minutes...that seems like a very long time. I have not had opportunity to try Corian so I really can't speak to that issue.

    Doug

  11. #26
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    I can't find the link to the Corian dye-sub information but I am still looking.

    The 20 minute time is correct, it takes that long to get Corian soft and pliable. I believe the softening of the entire piece is relative to the depth the ink transfers.

    This is also the time/temp that Corian takes for thermal bending.

  12. #27
    Keith...20 minutes to get soft and pliable....what happens to the overall shape of the piece then? Does it distort?

    Doug

  13. #28

    A little insight...

    A little insight to the Artanium/Sawgrass mystery..... Sawgrass purchased the artanium brand and it is a lesser quality ink, in that the suspended dye particulates are fewer in number. That came from John Barker at the Sawgrass seminar I was recently attending in San Diego. John is the one who runs Project Sublimation for Sawgrass.

    Both inks are very high quality, but for certain high end pro jobs the Sawgrass reportedly is a better choice. They are definitely NOT the same ink! They do react differently, have different profiles for the printers, and the color is slightly different for each.

    There are several other inks on the market, some as good, some worse, most less expensive, but it's all just trial and error to see what works on what. I am currently trying a chinese Dye Sub Ink that is about a third of the price of Artanium, but the results will tell.

    As far as the time it takes to get the corian to accept the ink, Keith, the trick is to get the corian to the correct temp. It needs to hit about 400 degrees and then the time is relevant to the ink for gas sublimation, not the substrate. So if it takes 20 minutes to get the corian to 375-400 degrees, then that is where the sublimation takes place. Hence the time situation.

    That is why polyester shirts are at 30-45 seconds as opposed to ceramic cups at 2 minutes or more. If you sublimate from the back, such as with ceramic tiles it can takes 6 to 10 minutes, depending on the press, for the heat to get all the way through the ceramic to sublimate the ink. Conversely, sublimate the same tile face up (not always possible due to the edge configuration) and it may only take 2 - 3 minutes.

    Okay, you have to attend Johns class for the rest! Hehehe
    Michael
    Michael

    Nighthawk Arts

  14. #29
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    Feb 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Jones
    Keith...20 minutes to get soft and pliable....what happens to the overall shape of the piece then? Does it distort?

    Doug
    Doug,

    You bet it distorts since the Corian gets about as soft as a wet noodle. I place my Corian blank on a stiff backer so that when I remove it from the press it doesn't droop as I transfer it to a metal plate to cool down. I then place another metal plate on top of the Corian blank with weights on top of it to keep the Corian blank flat.

    Mike,

    I believe that Ken Dolph told me to never exceed 350 degrees F as Corian will start to degrade. The soak time of 20 minutes is also a detail that I got from Ken and the combination has worked perfectly so far. There is almost no information concerning dye-sub of Corian anywhere that I have been able to find. My experience has been to experiment but I have never wandered far from the info that I received from Ken.

    There is a magazine article that I saw yesterday that had a plug for a company that was supposed to be the first to dye-sub Corian in the USA. I will try to find the article and post what information it contains. Dupont has several new brosures on the commercial use of Corian that are also informative, mostly architectural stuff.

  15. #30

    Ahhh, Okay..

    That is why the press time is so long then, Keith! At 350 it is going to take quite a whil for the sublimation to occur! I'll try to get some corian from some of the local fabricators here and experiement with it a little. Maybe the distortion can be used artistically to my benefit!
    Michael
    Michael

    Nighthawk Arts

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