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Your power preference for only 20 amp 240v is going to be pretty limiting, especially since you want to run larger tooling. Reconsider that in a serious way because larger tools with the power required to do what you seem to want to do expect and require higher amperage. Anecdotal "it ran fine" doesn't pass muster when it comes to power and...code.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
[OP]
Contributor
OK, the consensus seems to be that I need a larger outlet. That's fine, I previously rewired the entire garage, so I can add a breaker and outlet. That said, the 60A "service" limiting factor is what it is for now--it's limited by the wire size that was pulled underground from the house to the garage. It's underground cable and not in conduit, so it would need to be dug out. The wife isn't going to let me tear apart the yard anytime soon.
As for the SCMI 110 and 130 models, has anyone ran one of these on top of casters? I'd like to be able to move the machine around in my small 20x20 shop to make the most of cutting / storage space. I haven't seen this done anywhere, which makes me think this is not a great idea. But clarification would be nice!
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Yes, the shop I used to work in had a T110 on casters. Can't remember the wheel size, probably 5". A quick search shows that model is lighter than I thought at about 625#, which is close to my limit for horsing around alone. We had a Casadei F114 beside it which weighed at least twice that and although on wheels was practically immovable. I thought the T110 was a nice size shaper for a small shop and rugged enough for all the tooling we had.Originally Posted by Kory Watson
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moving machines is a pain n the butt. Best layout based on work length is better. I move them and heavier stuff with a pump truck. I dont like to look at machines and see wheels on them.
[OP]
Contributor
In an ideal world, I'd be with you there. That said, I have a 20x20 area to work with. It's packed already with a table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, miter station, lathe, duct collector, tool chest, and shaper. I have no choice but to push tools into the small working area I have that can fit long (8-10ft) stock, especially since the table saw sits in the middle of the shop at all times. My working area for shaping is also the outfeed area of my table saw
Are we positive the model 28 came with tilt? Tilt is a great feature but I looked up the manual reprints and can't find one that mentions tilt for that model.
https://shorturl.at/mRTU3
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the 120 and 130 here would be 1,200 lb machines without looking it up but from past feel. Okay looked it up 1,276 lbs so same as the sliding table saw. Machines feel nice in that weight range.
Last edited by Warren Lake; 08-25-2024 at 3:18 PM.
[OP]
Contributor
Any thoughts on this Oliver shaper? I know it's not an SCMI, but it seems sized a bit more realistic for my shop. I can outfit the smaller cabinet and 660lb weight with their mobile base. 1200lb SCMI sounds great but there's no way I can move that... so I would only be looking at the 110.
It looks like the big downsides would be the shaper not being able to do less than 5000 RPM, no tilting spindle, and no sliding table. But I think I can live without those at my scale. I also like that I'm buying new, I know it's more money but I see it as a plus (support, parts, etc.).
https://olivermachinery.net/shaper-5-1-7-5-4
Last edited by Kory Watson; 08-25-2024 at 4:00 PM.
Contributor
I'd take the pm28 over the Oliver.
I'm not a fan of casters, imho a pallet jack works better and is considerably cheaper.
I would be looking for a 511/512 model shaper (various companies imported versions including powermatic and delta) or any of the small euro machines.
2000lbs on a pallet jack is easy to move around a shop.
Contributor
one thing about pallet jack its proportional to your floor and my main machine room is not great or the sanding room. the garage shop im assembling now floor is cracked and shifted and rougher surface as well Its hard at times for me to move a 2,500 machine cause of the floor. Most people wont have that issue.
Your speeds also will relate to your tooling. You may not need lower speeds I need for older tooling.
Last edited by Warren Lake; 08-25-2024 at 4:13 PM.
[OP]
Contributor
Got a link to what a 511 or 512 looks like? And which euro machines are you referring to here?
Contributor
I see the Oliver as the superior machine. “ Consider yourself at home consider yourself one of the family” ( Broadway story of
boy named Oliver). I’ ve used a SCMI in a couple of employments, too many useless parts , which I saw as extreme clunky safety
gew-gaws .
Contributor
New Oliver isn’t the same as old Oliver.
Every once in a while I see 90’s era SCMI with a tenoning table for not that much money.
I would shoot for a 1.25” spindle and a sliding table.
Just a heads up I run a Martin T23 which has a 6.5hp motor on 1ph with a vfd and the breaker size is 50amps iirc.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
Contributor
The 512/513 was sold as a powermatic pm29, Delta 43-791 and 43-792, bridgewood 511, Jet SS-511/512, laguna 45t.. the list goes on and on.
511
https://www.gfpmachines.com/product/...-owned-sp119u/
512
https://landmarktools.com/products/c...G_ePQTka_plZ4d
513
https://www.coastmachinery.com/produ...ss-513-shaper/
Euro wise, scmi t100, t110, griggio t1000, sac 110.. etc. That's just what pops into my head, I'm sure there are others.
Contributor
I think I found the craigslist ads for your choices.
Although many people here are recommending the Powermatic, I would not choose that in your situation unless you wanted to get into a really high power circuit. If I found the right ad, he says he put in an Automatic Direct VFD The original owner states that he has ran it off a 20A circuit. While this is probably true and you can do that, he probably never reached any sort of load that required the "full load amps" capability of the motor. He may have also undersized the VFD as well (his scenario sounds like a rube-goldberg hack -- it works but it's not really correct). For example, a 5HP table-saw motor will only draw about 1200 watts when running without load (about 5 amps), but if you push some 4" maple through the blade, the motor will draw more current from the circuit (up to the "full load amps" amount of current of 19-21 amps). I would be suspect of what this guy did unless you can inspect the shaper directly and determine the exact model/make of the VFD (to ensure you are getting something that was engineered correctly).
Here's the power requirements situation:
3HP motor requires a 20A-240V single-phase circuit (although some 4HP motors can be run off this circuit size).
5HP motor requires a 30A-240V single-phase circuit with 10awg wire ran to the outlet and powercord (it doesn't matter if the motor is single-phase or a 3-phase ran from a VFD).
7.5HP motor requires a 50A-240V single-phase circuit with 8awg wiring ran to the outlet and power cord (typically a 3-phase motor through a VFD)
Oliver has been reported to be a very nice machinery company and most (if not all) of their machines are made in Taiwan now (like most other companies). They are generally heavier-duty than other comparable machines. This shaper is heavier and larger than the jet, but it's on par with the current Powermatic PM2700. It's same size table as the Powermatic (essentially 30" x 40"). Since you are planning to use this as your table-saw outfeed, be aware of the table height. The Oliver table is 35-1/2" high (same as Powermatic) compared to the new Jet which is 33-1/4" or 34" (depending on where you look). The Oliver overhead controls could get in the way of your cutting material from the tablesaw.
I would not see the 5000RPM slowest speed of the Oliver as a problem. Refer to the chart that Rod Sheridan posted here:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....49#post1904349
Based on that chart, a 5000RPM speed is fine for up to a 8" cutter diameter (I don't think you'll use anything larger). The current Powermatic PM2700 does have a slowest speed of 7500RPM which I could see potentially being a problem.
The Laguna machines can be a bargain, but many people have had support problems when they change source/manufacturers. The Laguna appears to be a "lite" version of the new JET JWS-35X3-1. The Jet/Powermatic/Oliver will support their traditional machines for a very long time.
If you want to get into a sliding table, you'll probably be looking towards 5.5-6K for something like a Hammer F3 (unless you can find something used).
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