Help me choose a shaper from 3 options.

[Kory Watson]

I love making windows and doors in my free time, this is my hobby. I eventually want to do timber framing too.

A shaper is an important part of making the above, and I want to upgrade. Background:

• My current machine is a Jet JWS-25CS (3HP, up to 3/4 spindle)
• I need support for a 1 1/4'' spindle for better cutter heads.
• I am not interested in using reducers for larger cutters as I don't feel this is particularly safe.
• I have access to 20A 220V circuits and really don't want to wire up something else.
• I do not have space for two shapers, and will sell my current model.

I've narrowed it down to these options:

1. Used Powermatic Model 28 w/ small set of cutters

• $3000, but negotiable on price
• Tilting Spindle
• 7.5HP
• Replaced VFD for single phase use
• Electronic speed control.
• The owner (a retiring shop owner) uses a Single Phase 20A 220V circuit to power this and says it runs fine.
• It doesn't appear that the spindle can be swapped out with a 3/4'' model, so I can't use my existing cutters, and can't use any 3/4'' cutters.
• Parts availability for this machine also appears unclear since it's pretty old?

2. New Jet-35X-1

• $2800
• 3HP
• 1 1/4 Spindle Included, 3/4 Spindle sold separately

3. Used "Laguna Compact Shaper"

• $1300
• 3HP
• 1 1/4 and 3/4 Spindles
• Listing is about a month old so unclear if still available.

4. Something else?

What would you choose from these options on my situation?

Thanks!

[Warren Lake]

cant speak for you but only one id be interested is the first one. I dont care about new stuff and I dont care about low powered stuff. there is one real shaper there. First I bought was a 3/4 spindle over 40 years ago waste of time and money. Good brand still it was a low powered toy.

[Kevin Jenness]

I'm curious what a Powermatic 28 looks like. Can you post a link or photo? The old 26 was a decent mid-range machine and the 2700 is better. I am very skeptical of running a true 7.5 hp motor drawing over 30 amps on a 20 amp circuit. If you want a solid shaper for door work you should plan on upgrading your power supply. Keep in mind that your tooling costs will soon outpace your investment in the machine and infrastructure.

I have done a fair amount of doors using a 5 hp Chaiwanese Northwood with 1 1/4" and 3/4" interchangeable spindles but I am limited to 7" diameter tooling by the table opening and speed range, so I typically build doors with small diameter cope/stick plus spline tenons. That makes a solid door but for integral tenons and a lot of industrial cutterheads you need something heavier. I would look for something like a SCMI 110 on the small end, with a large table opening and a low speed of 3-4k rpm.

[Kory Watson]

Here’s a look at a similar model 28 shaper: https://www.exfactory.com/Detail/SH-.../powermatic-28

If I really need to add a breaker and outlet, I can. It’s just a pain to open up the wall again. My garage has 60A service, so I should be able to bump up the size if needed.

I’d love to upgrade further to an SCMI model but I just don’t have the space. This Powermatic is as big as I can fit in my 20x20 shop. Space here in Seattle close enough to the house to be feasible is unreasonably expensive (1.5m purchase or 9k rent for a 40x40 shop space I can walk to), so I’m stuck with the small space I have.

I’m not a pro either, there is no money making here. At a max I might do some jobs to help out local churches / business that can’t afford full price, just for the sake of having more projects to do

[andrew whicker]

You can have a new spindle machined for you (a few hundred dollars I think).

So I wouldn't let that stop you.

[Kory Watson]

Here are machine specs for the Powermatic as well: C34uLsj.png

[Kevin Jenness]

Here’s a look at a similar model 28 shaper: https://www.exfactory.com/Detail/SH-.../powermatic-28

If I really need to add a breaker and outlet, I can. It’s just a pain to open up the wall again. My garage has 60A service, so I should be able to bump up the size if needed.

I’d love to upgrade further to an SCMI model but I just don’t have the space. This Powermatic is as big as I can fit in my 20x20 shop. Space here in Seattle close enough to the house to be feasible is unreasonably expensive (1.5m purchase or 9k rent for a 40x40 shop space I can walk to), so I’m stuck with the small space I have.

I’m not a pro either, there is no money making here. At a max I might do some jobs to help out local churches / business that can’t afford full price, just for the sake of having more projects to do

The electrical speed control dial indicates the motor is 3 phase. Your spec sheet indicates that the machine has a factory inverter (vfd?) with 3 phase input for the 7.5 hp motor and single phase for the 5 hp. In any case you should plan on a heavier circuit.

The SCMI 110 is no bigger than the PM 28, has a larger table opening and outweighs it by several hundred pounds.

I'm not saying you need a big heavy shaper for door and sash work, but if you want to swing large diameter tooling safely and efficiently you need at least a 5 hp motor and a solid hefty machine. Almost all industrial shapers are 3 phase.

[Bill Dufour]

Powermatic... replaced vfd with electronic speed control. This makes no sense to me, vocabulary. I would guess it is a three phase motor with a vfd to power it.
BilL D

[Warren Lake]

there were about three sizes of SCM tables and they dont relate to the model all the time ive seen large tables on 110 and small. I have large on the 120, same or larger than the 130 id have to check

[Kory Watson]

Powermatic... replaced vfd with electronic speed control. This makes no sense to me, vocabulary. I would guess it is a three phase motor with a vfd to power it.
BilL D

Sorry, I realize this is nonsensical, these should have been separate bullets. The unit came with a Delta VFD from the factory to allow use single phase, but that failed and was replaced with a new one. The VFD is not related to the electronic speed control.

Best,

Kory

[Kory Watson]

there were about three sizes of SCM tables and they dont relate to the model all the time ive seen large tables on 110 and small. I have large on the 120, same or larger than the 130 id have to check

This is good to know. I'll need to look for one with a small table. I wasn't aware they varied in size this much.

[Warren Lake]

they do and some will have mitre gauge slots and some wont

[Richard Coers]

Some Powermatic machines were wonderful, but some were not and parts are now a big issue. I'd go with the Jet if I was buying one.

[stephen thomas]

I love making windows and doors......eventually want to do timber framing too.

A shaper is an important part of making the above, and I want to upgrade.

I've narrowed it down to these options:

1. Used Powermatic Model 28 w/ small set of cutters

• $3000, but negotiable on price
• Tilting Spindle

Do you have a tenoner?
If not, should you be looking at a sliding table shaper?
Can you link to a Model 28 with tilting spindle - the manual on OWWM does not include that option?

I don't like any of the ones you've posted, agree with the others about SCMI or Griggio, e.g. Also with the same caveat - be sure to verify one with miter gage if important to your work (tenoning?)
My biggest objection to PM 28 is the non-removable spindle. In truth, that might only matter to you if you are capable of making your own spindles. I like that option to make spindles and collet chucks. ( Especially If i could only have one shaper & hence presumably no pin router either).

Good luck with the decision.

[William Hodge]

The Powermatic shaper would be a good choice. It can do a lot more than you are looking at now, instead of being not enough machine. It needs a stock feeder.

More important is decent power supply. A 200 amp service with wires on the wall in conduit make adding machines easier. A 60 amp service makes me wonder what's in the walls.

The little shaper could be used as an outfeed table, until you need it.