Are forums decreasing?

[Bill Howatt]

Probably a lot of factors but I'm going with "age".
My guess is the average age of forum users has increased and they aren't making as many things anymore and those that still frequent the forums come to see what's going on not to post their now absent new creations.
The younger people that would normally backfill are not computer forum oriented. They like looking at video things on Youtube and this is where they see how to do things. They also like doing things with a phone and IMO, doing much on a forum is a PITA with a phone but then again, I'm part of the age problem.
I can draw this age thing into a parallel with the small town I live in. In the old days, the town populace was young and there were lots of activities happening. Now that the town is noticeably older these activities have fallen away; the old people are unable or now don't feel like doing such things anymore.

[stephen thomas]

.... following another woodworker here from a poorly moderated manufacturers forum.

Ken - if it was PM, I'd like to apologize to you personally.
I don't tolerate bullies, but do tolerate a lot of other things that offend people on other sites.
Besides that, i used to spend periods of time working out of state, not checking in, and plain not paying attention.
The mod system on PM has changed, now, such that we cover for each other.
& we have all clamped down more than in the past.

Don (no relation despite same last name) famously (or maybe infamously?) started PM after polling a bunch of us who were subject to random attacks and selective censorship on Chaski. We did not want to repeat the same errors nor limit how people can fight back. So many early sites were modded by a control freak owner. Their buddies gamed the system by trolling and bullying people they decided they didn't like. When said subject retaliated, the mods would shut out their part of the discussion and eliminate anything that made the buddies look bad. Neanderthal Haven was like that, then some follow-up forums, OWWM is still like that, e.g. PM we tried to keep it so you could swing back, since most of us could. Maybe we erred too far in that direction for a while. I also had a few people who were clearly dysfunctional but had interesting perspectives & seemed to need the therapy of talking about their interests. They were so used to being bullied in real life, that they would start to take perfectly normal comments as slights & fly off the handle, creating brawls. Sigh. From a different perspective, lot of the time i left stuff up just so people could see who really was an asshole. (On other forums, the instigating comments would be sanitized, and the response left, making it look like the respondent was the problem). Letting the world see the perp's own words everyday used to work in real life. Now people in most walks and any media have no shame. The entire cultural model has changed.

I've got more to say on the OP subject as well as censorship, but will save for a later post.

smt

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stephen, it wasn't PM, it was the Ridgid forum. A couple of potentially skilled woodworkers were allowed to attack anyone who dared ask a newby or simple question. I was never attacked, but I refuse to tolerate or hang with any person who would bully a student trying to learn something. Another guy mentioned leaving and comingG to SMC and I followed him here.

[Jim Becker]

ISMC has a problem with pictures that does put a lot of people off based on posts in the past and exiting members. They limited the amount of pics per "upload" some years ago. As a result I have a current thread where I have posted only a few pics here. On other forums I have posted over 70 documenting the entire process. It is just too difficult here to do that so I limit it to just a few. Storage is so cheap now I really don't know why the number of pictures or the ease of posting them is so throttled but, the admins here know what they are working with and what they can allow.

The limit is only per post...and it's because of the forum software, not the SMC owner/admins/moderators. IE, there is no "throttling" going on here. VBulletin 4.2.5 cannot accommodate more than 8 photos per post as a hard, physical limit.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have learned a lot here at SMC. I now know that my wife and B.I.L. are the proud owners of a very antique spill plane and a genuine Shaker hay rake from Canterbury NH.

[David Storer]

I am a relative new arrival at SMC. I am also building my woodworking knowledge and skills quite late in life. I don't have a lot to contribute in terms of knowledge or experience. I also don't ask a lot of questions. SMC has been around a long time and has good search functionality. Especially for a mainly hand-tool woodworker, there aren't a lot of questions that haven't been asked and answered already, one way or another.

But I do find SMC amazingly interesting and useful. I visit the forum most days. And I appreciate the time that others put into documenting their builds and explaining their thinking. The forum also still feels like a community. It has its cranks and oddballs but so does any community and some of the cranks and oddballs clearly 'know their onions' when it comes to woodworking. I'm a grown-up. I can pick my way through the odd oversensitive response, inflated ego, or pointless argument. I know when to take things with a pinch of salt and I'm glad that the forum isn't excessively moderated.

I hope that the, perhaps relatively small, group of regular/frequent contributors know that their efforts are valued.

[Jason Roehl]

As far as get togethers, I wonder if the Covid "stay home and isolate" plays a role there. I have other thoughts but they stray too much into political waters.

It may have been one of the last nails in the coffin, so to speak, but I think by about 2010 most of the gatherings had pretty much fizzled.

[David Storer]

Just to add ... I do use YouTube quite a bit as a source of information on basic woodworking 'how-tos'. But there is a lot to be said for static photographs and brief written commentary too. It's a lot quicker to work through, easier to 'freeze and focus' on key points, and a great relief from the doubtful musical tastes of some YouTubers.

[Patty Hann]

I participate in a few forums and do notice that of which you speak. Some folks are lazy, some are just lookie-loos...

Wow. "Lookie-lous".... Haven't heard that expression in a looooong time.

[Ole Anderson]

I find myself spending a lot of time on Facebook groups. While fairly small, I started one for Jeeps with Chevy LS engine conversions it now has 5800 members.https://www.facebook.com/groups/1797651100307022 I joined one called Church Sound and Media Techs several years ago when it had 5000 members, now it has 95,000 members. https://www.facebook.com/groups/ChurchSoundMediaTechs

[jack duren]

There are bullies on woodworking forums.

on one forum a moderator warned me that it was 99% amateurs and not to use and not to use real work situations, more or less as examples.

if you spent almost 40 years in commercial shops and 40 years in your personal hobby shop, you find situations happen a lot with many employees doing the dosage trade.

Hard not to use woodworking and accident examples..

I read the othe4 day on a search, there was a Stumpy problem. I don’t watch the guys videos and often hear references to his videos.

[stephen thomas]

Thanks, Ken - I'm relieved!

smt

[Edward Weber]

There are bullies on woodworking forums.

on one forum a moderator warned me that it was 99% amateurs and not to use and not to use real work situations, more or less as examples.

if you spent almost 40 years in commercial shops and 40 years in your personal hobby shop, you find situations happen a lot with many employees doing the dosage trade.

Hard not to use woodworking and accident examples..

I read the othe4 day on a search, there was a Stumpy problem. I don’t watch the guys videos and often hear references to his videos.

I agree, there can be bullies on forums, that's not to be confused with strong opinions or misunderstandings.
Tempers can flare from time to time but at the end of the day you should be able to agree to disagree when appropriate.
Just over the weekend (on another forum) someone responding in a thread he wasn't fond of said this;
"go find another thread because your thoughts on this are unwanted".
I certainly don't know if the mods talked to him or not but a discussion forum is usually about hearing different thoughts, not just the ones you agree with.

I think the forums disappearing has more to do with everyone these days being an expert on everything rather than age. Which is ironic, most of the older members are more likely to be the experts.

[Pat Germain]

I'm a member of multiple online forums; Vintage Mustangs, Vintage Audio and SMC, for example. I have noticed a significant drop in the amount of posts on all forums I frequent. I think there are multiple factors.

Before Internet forums, I used to frequent NewsGroups. (I learned a lot from the rec.arts.woodworking newsgroup.) That was back in the days when people didn't have Internet access at home. Most of the participants were in science, technology or academic fields. (I worked at a software company at the time. )Things were a lot more polite back then; likely because scientists and academic types are accustomed to collaborating and being civil about it. Then Internet forums came along and I too found a lot of bullies and belligerent online behavior. But I also found a few gems like SMC.

I see similarities between online forums and car clubs. It's all too common to visit a car club and find out there's some self-proclaimed dictator controlling anything and everyone in the club. Anything said dictator perceives as a threat is immediately banned or eliminated. Anything contrary to what said dictator believes is immediately attacked. Club or forum; no thanks.

Like with car clubs, online forum participants are aging and young people aren't joining. Pardon the stereotype, but I really do think younger people tend to have very short attention spans these days. And their social activities tend to be very spontaneous. My Ford Mustang club has a Facebook page. Almost nobody participates on it because most of the club members or getting pretty old and don't do Facebook. Young people also tend to avoid Facebook in favor of more trendy Social Media apps. I'm a member of another Mustang "Club" which is nothing more than a Facebook page. No meetings. No board members. No real club members. No dues. No nothing. Whomever created this Facebook page will post that there's a get-together or a cruise the next day and people just show up. I have to admit, my car club's meetings are pretty boring. Whenever young people do show up, they don't come back. Likely they looked around, saw a bunch of old folks and lost interest. Maybe they see Internet forums the same way? Maybe Social media "clubs" are the way of the future for classic cars and woodworking.

There are also big culture differences between older and younger generations which are hard to overcome. I was a sailor for nine years, yet even I get very annoyed when I try to communicate with young people who speak or write with non-stop profanity. I can deal with it, but it's certainly a big eye-roll for me. Another challenge is with lifestyles. Younger people tend to be fine with people who are LGTBQ+. I'm the same way. I see it as none of my business and if people are good people, that's what matters to me. But many people of my generation and older simply refuse to accept or associate with LGTBQ+ people. It's their right, but it makes things difficult. That's another challenge with my Mustang club. Whenever we do get guests who aren't exactly like the current members, they tend to not be welcomed very warmly. This likely also applies to some Internet forums.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jack, look in the mirror, we’re all getting gray haired if it hasn’t fallen out.

Woodworking in general is a diminishing hobby as many younger people have no interest, have no place to do woodworking or cannot afford it.

Where I live a young person would be paying one million dollars for a starter townhouse, doesn’t leave a lot of money for hobbies.

I also find that many aren’t interested in craft work, however small CNC or 3D printing is popular, as are video games.

Times and society changes, we’re in the fourth Industrial Revolution at present and it’s really wreaking havoc on a lot of young people

Regards, Rod