Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Bugs !

  1. #1

    Bugs !

    Anybody know best way to stop the destruction, kill the vermin & prevent this ? Please let me know. I built this table a few years ago, plain sawn white oak,wood was sourced from a well known hard wood supplier. I finished the the top, legs, skirt & all exposed surfaces with Rubio & did the underside of top with Watco as it is a large table & didn't want to waste Rubio on the underside. The bugs are eating away & leaving saw dust on the floor & chairs. 1 pic is saw dust on a chair the other is from the underside of the top. The bug holes seem limited to only one of the boards so far.
    Thanks
    Bugs.jpg
    bug1.jpg

  2. #2
    My guess is the material was just air dried, not kiln dried.

  3. #3
    Looks like powderpost beetles. Small enough that heat treatment could work.

    https://entomology.ca.uky.edu/ef616

    "The pest control industry also uses heat to treat dwellings and furnishings for bed bugs. While it would be difficult to kill wood-boring beetles in ‘built in’ components like floors and cabinets, de-infestation of furniture and similar objects may be possible within a heat chamber. Pest control firms use stationary and portable heat chambers of various sizes. Temperatures employed or for powderpost beetles would be similar to those used for bed bugs (120-135F), although exposure times might need to be longer, e.g., up to 24 hours, depending on wood thickness. Powderpost beetles can also be killed by placing smaller items such as wood carvings and picture frames in a deep freeze (0F) for 3-7 days, again depending on wood thickness. For more on this topic, seeUniversity of Kentucky Entomology Entfact-640, Thermal Deinfestation of Household Items."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,396
    As Cameron suggests, heat treating the table should kill the bugs.
    Alternatively if a house in your neighborhood is being tented you could ask to put the table in there for the duration of the fumigation.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    4,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron Wood View Post
    Looks like powderpost beetles. Small enough that heat treatment could work.

    https://entomology.ca.uky.edu/ef616

    "The pest control industry also uses heat to treat dwellings and furnishings for bed bugs. While it would be difficult to kill wood-boring beetles in built in components like floors and cabinets, de-infestation of furniture and similar objects may be possible within a heat chamber. Pest control firms use stationary and portable heat chambers of various sizes. Temperatures employed or for powderpost beetles would be similar to those used for bed bugs (120-135F), although exposure times might need to be longer, e.g., up to 24 hours, depending on wood thickness. Powderpost beetles can also be killed by placing smaller items such as wood carvings and picture frames in a deep freeze (0F) for 3-7 days, again depending on wood thickness. For more on this topic, seeUniversity of Kentucky Entomology Entfact-640, Thermal Deinfestation of Household Items."
    The center of the wood has to reach 133 degrees, so usually sterilizing wood requires heat around 150 degrees F to get the center hot enough.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    10,209
    Location and climate. Move to antarctica,
    Would bagging it with dry ice to displace O2 kill bugs?
    Bill D

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Location and climate. Move to antarctica,
    Would bagging it with dry ice to displace O2 kill bugs?
    Bill D
    According to the paper I linked, 3-5 days at 0˚ will do it. doesn't mention the oxygen aspect.

    Since the wood is finished, the eggs were likely already in the wood.

  8. #8
    Interesting point on the air dry VS KD, I paid for KD from a very large supplier who sells a lot hardwoods, do suppliers knowingly sell air dry and call KD ? If so could you imagine the problems a shop would encounter with a few kitchens having this problem. I used 5/4 materiel surfaced and sanded removed dust prior to finish on both sides & never saw any bug holes, is it possible for eggs to hatch 2 years later ? The table is 38" X 94" I can't see any way to heat treat it or freeze it as described in that article.
    Now I know who the enemy is I can plan my mission ! Google search 1st & I think I'll try vacuuming out the holes and flood them with some sort of insecticide or poison. If I find out that powderpost beetles can be dormant for a few years I'm going to call the supplier and see what they say.
    Thanks for the replies

    Edit, just read a few articles that say powder post beetles need moister content of at least 16% or 20% minimum to survive. I check all my wood on all projects with a moister meter, after I get in shop & again after milling it to size. The wood for this table was never higher than 7%-8%. I know my meter may be a percent or two off but no way was that wood at 16-20%. Anyway what's recommended besides thermal treating is a borat solution I'm going to try.
    Last edited by lou Brava; 04-24-2024 at 10:47 AM. Reason: add text

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    9,250
    Powder Post beetles won't survive the kiln drying process, but they will enter the wood after it's been kiln dried if given the chance.

  10. #10
    "...lyctid beetles typically start emerging from wood within a year of processing. Thus, infestations usually are encountered in new homes or newly manufactured articles. In almost all cases, infestation results from wood that contained eggs or larvae at the time it was brought into the dwelling"

    "Lower starch levels also make it harder for the larvae to complete their development. In newly seasoned wood with abundant nutrients, egg to adult development occurs in less than a year. Conversely, as wood ages, starch content declines and development slows to the point where some beetles may not emerge for two or more years if at all. Consequently, infestations eventually cease and die off even without intervention — an important factor when weighing treatment options(see ‘Managing Infestations’). Small numbers of beetles developing within wood may continue to emerge for up to about five years. This is due to diminished suitability of the wood rather than from new infestation. Homeowners should be aware of this possibility."


    "Infestations can persist in wood with a moisture content as low as about eight percent,..." (this refers to the most likely of several species)



    "Kiln-dried lumber is heated for a period of hours to a temperature of about 125-140F. This is sufficient to kill all stages of powderpost beetles that might be in the wood prior to heating. However, even wood that is properly kiln dried may become infested during subsequent storage and transit. The longer wood sits in a vulnerable condition, the greater the chance beetles will find and lay eggs on the lumber."


    Since the holes are where the beetles have already left, chemical treatment is not that effective, but borate solution wouldn't hurt.
    Last edited by Cameron Wood; 04-24-2024 at 1:19 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    4,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    Powder Post beetles won't survive the kiln drying process, but they will enter the wood after it's been kiln dried if given the chance.
    They will survive a dehumidifier kiln drying process.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,811
    Can you build a box around the table with cardboard or foam, double on the top. Put an electric heater under and bake overnight at 150? Might wreck the finish but that's easier to fix than replacing the infested board.

    Wait, there could be a risk of fire. Do it in the daytime when it can be monitored and have an extinguisher handy. Or do it outside.

  13. #13
    Sorry to be the Negative Nancy here, but I would get rid of the table. Hard to know if home baked solutions have worked. If you have a professional outfit that does this regularly that is the only way I would consider.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bender View Post
    Can you build a box around the table with cardboard or foam, double on the top. Put an electric heater under and bake overnight at 150? Might wreck the finish but that's easier to fix than replacing the infested board.

    Wait, there could be a risk of fire. Do it in the daytime when it can be monitored and have an extinguisher handy. Or do it outside.
    I built a small electric heated kiln specifically so that it also could kill bugs. As someone said, you have to get the entire piece of wood up to at least 133F for a minimum of 3 hours (I think?) to kill bugs/larvae, etc. I use a portable electric radiator and a small fan to mix the air. The heater I use is 1500 W on high. With 2" of foam insulation all around, and 3-1/2" of fiberglass on the top and sides, the 4 x 4 x 8 ft box with stickered lumber inside only needs 1000 W during cold Fall temperatures to take the kiln up to about 140F, and the interior wood temp. up to 135F in less than a day at the end of a drying cycle. I put a thermocouple inside the center of a board to watch the temperature and confirm it reached 135F. For a single table, it probably would take even less time.

    I use the old school analog type portable electrical radiator. The digital ones are likely to die at that temp. You also may have to bypass a high temp. safety limit switch, depending upon how old the unit is. I'm not advocating you do this, any of it, I'm only describing what I have done. My kiln is in an outbuilding.

    John

  15. #15
    Thanks for drying heating suggestions John, I'd have to build something in the garage and since this table is complete I'd be afraid of what that heat may do to wood, warping & glue joints. I did read where as the wood dries naturally the bugs will die off. I also read they can't survive if MC is below something like 12% so I'm not believing everything I'm reading except proper heating of the wood will kill them.
    Do you think the heat would ruin the finished top ?
    Ron, I am not going to get rid of table It's only 2 1/2 years old & I probably have $800-$1000 in materials alone. I'm going to try cabinet scraping of the Watco on the underside as that's where the worm holes are do a Disodium Octaborate treatment & see what happens. From what I've read that will kill them, pro exterminators use the product all the time so I'm thinking/hoping it will work. I'd rather watch the bugs eat it than get rid of it.
    Table.jpg
    T1.jpg

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •