Township building codes.

[Steve Demuth]

Did you ask the ordnance enforcement people? Whenever I have wanted to do something that must be to code, they have always provided clear, concise reasoning and in fact, in two cases, gave me some suggested alternates that made my renovations meet code and saved time and money!

Now that's an interesting experience. The only answer I've ever got from that exercise is "that's what it says in the zoning ordinance" or "that's the law." Not that those are wrong answers, but they're not very informative.

My favorite was trying to get an explanation for why, since the zoning ordinance prohibited a guest house from being more than 600 square feet and from having a basement, I was required to put in a septic system sized for a 3 bedroom, 6 occupant, dwelling. The answer was right - the house size restrictions were in the local ordinance, and the septic system requirement was in state law (with an unexercised option for local modification).

[Bill Dufour]

My town used to have the codes online and you look things up. No longer. Now for most stuff it is pretty much call us to find out. So I look at other cities codes to get an idea of what will be allowed here.
The old online code said no permit required for a panel replacement if it was over 100 amps.
Bill D

[Tim Elett]

Thanks for the help, monday I will ask about something that is attached to the house,like a patio.

[Larry Edgerton]

God luck. There are three townships around here that I will not bid a job in if it requires permitting. I can't bid and make money because their rules are so arbitrary.

[George Yetka]

I would say lightning. If it is Ok to have a wooden one attached they must be afraid of lighting striking it and setting the house on fire. Tell them youll put a nice big ground rod on it.

[Brian Elfert]

You usually can't get a variance unless there is a reason not of your making that makes something not work. If you can't place the gazebo ten feet away because it send up in the neighbor's yard that might be a reason to grant a variance. They might not grant a variance if you simply want it closer than ten feet and there is space to put it at ten feet.

A friend of mine rebuilt his two car garage that was within five or ten feet of the property line. He was required to use drywall on the exterior of the property line side underneath the siding. I don't think he needed a variance since the existing garage was in the same location.

[Jim Becker]

A friend of mine rebuilt his two car garage that was within five or ten feet of the property line. He was required to use drywall on the exterior of the property line side underneath the siding. I don't think he needed a variance since the existing garage was in the same location.

There is often dispensation for garages relative to side-setbacks compared to residential accessory buildings and other structures and that likely stems from the very real fact that driveways, themselves, are often close to the line. Our jurisdiction requires 15' side-setbacks for all structures except garages. Garages require a minimum 5' side-setback. And yes, like-for-like, including setbacks is often approved for same footprint replacements with some restrictions and requirements. But again, zoning is "local".

[Rob Luter]

God luck. There are three townships around here that I will not bid a job in if it requires permitting. I can't bid and make money because their rules are so arbitrary.

Puzzled....

I work with building and code officials all the time. To a man (or woman) they would all rather have the codes conversation on the front end of the permitting process than on the back end. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had at the behest of panicked customers that installed windows and or doors that were not code compliant with respect to structural or thermal ratings.

Michigan adopted the 2015 IRC/IBC/IECC with amendments. It's the responsibility of the contractor to know this and understand them in the context of the project. In most areas knowing the code landscape is a prerequisite for gaining and maintaining professional license.

Are you saying that the building officials in these townships just make it up as they go along, of just selectively enforce the things that they want to?

I'm reminded of an old adage I learned coming up in the Building Products Industry: The difference between God and a Building Inspector is that God does not believe he's a Building Inspector.

[Larry Edgerton]

Puzzled....

I work with building and code officials all the time. To a man (or woman) they would all rather have the codes conversation on the front end of the permitting process than on the back end. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had at the behest of panicked customers that installed windows and or doors that were not code compliant with respect to structural or thermal ratings.

Michigan adopted the 2015 IRC/IBC/IECC with amendments. It's the responsibility of the contractor to know this and understand them in the context of the project. In most areas knowing the code landscape is a prerequisite for gaining and maintaining professional license.

Are you saying that the building officials in these townships just make it up as they go along, of just selectively enforce the things that they want to?

Twice I had plans approved by the county/state for new homes and the township stepped in and said you can't do that. One was a replacement for an existing house and the plans called for it to actually be 10 feet farther away from the lake than the original. They stopped the project and the homeowners decided they did not want the house if they had to put it back as far as the township demanded. The irony was that the head jerk for the township lived three houses down and his house was closer to the lake than the original. Small people with a bit of power.

Now by this time I had over 100 hrs in the bid and permits, getting all the subs arranged, and wasted my subs time which I hate to do. Life is too short to deal with these kinds of people. I was never short of work, so I just blow those places off.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Now that's an interesting experience. The only answer I've ever got from that exercise is "that's what it says in the zoning ordinance" or "that's the law." Not that those are wrong answers, but they're not very informative.

My favorite was trying to get an explanation for why, since the zoning ordinance prohibited a guest house from being more than 600 square feet and from having a basement, I was required to put in a septic system sized for a 3 bedroom, 6 occupant, dwelling. The answer was right - the house size restrictions were in the local ordinance, and the septic system requirement was in state law (with an unexercised option for local modification).

Steve, in one case, a former owner of this house had built a bathroom and had it connecting directly with an open doorway, no door, to the utility room where both the washer/dryer was located, the water heater and the gas furnace. Local code said you can't have a shower/bath in the same room as a furnace (worried about accelerated rust on the furnace) so I asked the inspector how on earth can I install a door there? The inspector suggested a pocket door. Bingo! I purchased a pocket door kit and the newly separated utility room passed code.

In the same bathroom, the previous owner built it with the electrical panel in the bathroom. That didn't meet code. When I tore out the original galvanized shower, framed the room out with a tiled shower and drain, this came to light. This was with a different inspector. He pointed it out saying he couldn't pass it but IF I was to frame in a short wall more than 36" across from the panel and put a door at each end so the electrical panel was in it's own little room, there would be a bathroom at one end of the hall, a bedroom at the other end and it would pass code.

I really have gotten some good recommendations from the code people. I had broken my back and for a physical therapy while I was off work, I built an octagon goose gazebo to house 3 concrete geese brought to our home by a sister (I am the oldest of 6 and I think the geese were her act of retribution for our childhood). When the 2nd inspector came out inspect a new gas furnace installation, he saw the gazebo, looked it over and said it would pass inspection too. (Hurricane clips holding the rafters to the wall.).

[Mel Fulks]

I think they just want you to enjoy the experience ! They follow Martha Stewart’s guidance. Lightning might be a reason, too.

[Tim Elett]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I will try to get the inspector to come out and take a look, but my project is a12x12 metal gazebo thats not ok,but a 10x13 patio umbrella or a easy up screen roomthe same size would not need a permit. 🙄

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A way to get around the 10 foot rule is to be sure the auxiliary structure is less than 100 square feet. Garden sheds and small, portable, auxiliary structures <100 SF do not require permits in our town. One gentleman in our neighborhood has a shop created out of several 8 X 12 garden sheds all lined up right on the property line and very close to the house.

[Jim Becker]

A way to get around the 10 foot rule that is to be sure the auxiliary structure is less than 100 square feet. Garden sheds and small, portable, auxiliary structures <100 SF do not require permits in our town. One gentleman in our neighborhood has a shop created out of several 8 X 12 garden sheds all lined up right on the property line and very close to the house.

Permits and zoning are two separate things. While a residential accessory building under 200 sq ft might not require a permit, it will still be subject to zoning setbacks in most jurisdictions unless it's specifically called out in the details of the particular residential zone regulations that apply to the property.

[Bill Dufour]

Most of california sheds under 120 square feet can be on the property line, no permits, etc. Some height rules and no overhang over a fence line. Add power or water and you need permits. Two such sheds allowed per one lot.
The 120 sq feet is the max size sold at box stores.
BilLD