Scm S50 planer questions

[Jesse Shriver]

Just picked up this old beast. Trying to get her sorted. First thing i need to do is remove the buildup on the machine. I’ve seen some threads where people recommend soap and water, mineral spirits, brake cleaner. Didn’t find anything unanimous so curious what you guys believe. I was planning on doing a quicker clean to see if she’s all working some on blaster to the gears and such and then doing a proper tear down and clean later.

Other question i have is a bit more specific. I can’t find much detailed specs most of the newer big machines are 220v the cable on this thing is fat as heck and he has new electrical box on it. Each line in the cable is like pencil eraser sized. From what i read online seems like 60 amp lines. But i just want to make sure this isn’t requiring a heavier volt outlet. Is there a problem with getting a plug and testing it out on the 220 line i have? It just shouldn’t be able to run it at all or full power right?

Thanks for the help guys.

[Kevin Jenness]

Cleaning depends on the nature of the "buildup".For dirt try detergent and water, for grease mineral spirits or similar, for knife pitch try blade cleaner or oven cleaner. Start with the least noxious and work your way up.

Is there no id plate on the machine with electrical specs? I would expect that machine to be 3 phase, around 10 hp, probably 230 volts but could be a higher voltage. If so it will struggle to start at best. 3 phase cable will have 3 conductors plus ground. Your conductor size seems large for that machine.

[Jesse Shriver]

6.6 kW (~9 hp) 230V, 3 PH motor
This is what a prior person posted a few years back. There is no plates anywhere saying specs. I have a 220v outlet already wired up i was just going to get a plug for the machine. But looking at its cables for my machine it seems like it has a 60 amp wire. And my breaker is a 40 amp.

[Nick Crivello]

6.6 kW (~9 hp) 230V, 3 PH motor
This is what a prior person posted a few years back. There is no plates anywhere saying specs. I have a 220v outlet already wired up i was just going to get a plug for the machine. But looking at its cables for my machine it seems like it has a 60 amp wire. And my breaker is a 40 amp.

Do you have a phase converter? You will not be able to run the SCM on single phase 220v.

[Jesse Shriver]

Do you have a phase converter? You will not be able to run the SCM on single phase 220v.

Yea i need to get the converter too.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I have a S50 and have posted about it in detail here and on owwm.org ; I'd imagine you've found my previous threads on it if you've keyword searched. There is not very much information online about this particular model.

Im not sure I understand exactly what your electrical question is. Mine is 3 phase, 220 volt and 9 hp cutterhead motor with a smaller 3 phase motor (less than 1 hp?) for the table raise and lower. Maybe post some photos of the machine and wiring and electrical starter box? I have let my contributor status lapse recently and not on this site much these days so not currently viewing photos personally but others will surely be able to help as well.

The bigger question seems to be what type and size phase converter are you planning to use? It will take a pretty large rotary phase converter to start the large diameter cutterhead and 9hp motor. I currently run a 10 hp phase perfect, which is rated for up to 36 FLA (3 phase) output at 220v and it starts it no problem. I used to run a Kay RPC rated to start up to 10 hp and it did start it but much slower and borderline maxed out compared to the Phase Perfect.

Edit: PS - a VFD may not be "plug and play" on this machine due to the multiple motors of different sizes and different speeds / inputs. I believe there are ways to wire a single VFD to multiple motors of different sizes and retain OEM onboard controls, but that is beyond my level of understanding and seems to me it would require 2 appropriately sized VFDs (1 for each motor) and not sure personally how to wire in order to retain the controls on the planer itself compared to controlling from the VFD.

[Warren Lake]

rotos are not all equal my 10 would start that with no issue and its not even the heaviest one of the three then they sold, one more hocus pocus gizmos than the mid level one. People talk about rotos, they are not the same in their abilities. I also have the most basic one from same company bare minimum 3 HP unit started 3 Hp fine combo machine has a shaft with a saw and mortiser other end beside the jointer planer head. The 3Hp would start more than rated for and it was the bare minimum one they sold.

[Jesse Shriver]

I have a S50 and have posted about it in detail here and on owwm.org ; I'd imagine you've found my previous threads on it if you've keyword searched. There is not very much information online about this particular model.

Im not sure I understand exactly what your electrical question is. Mine is 3 phase, 220 volt and 9 hp cutterhead motor with a smaller 3 phase motor (less than 1 hp?) for the table raise and lower. Maybe post some photos of the machine and wiring and electrical starter box? I have let my contributor status lapse recently and not on this site much these days so not currently viewing photos personally but others will surely be able to help as well.

The bigger question seems to be what type and size phase converter are you planning to use? It will take a pretty large rotary phase converter to start the large diameter cutterhead and 9hp motor. I currently run a 10 hp phase perfect, which is rated for up to 36 FLA (3 phase) output at 220v and it starts it no problem. I used to run a Kay RPC rated to start up to 10 hp and it did start it but much slower and borderline maxed out compared to the Phase Perfect.

Edit: PS - a VFD may not be "plug and play" on this machine due to the multiple motors of different sizes and different speeds / inputs. I believe there are ways to wire a single VFD to multiple motors of different sizes and retain OEM onboard controls, but that is beyond my level of understanding and seems to me it would require 2 appropriately sized VFDs (1 for each motor) and not sure personally how to wire in order to retain the controls on the planer itself compared to controlling from the VFD.

IÂ’m sure i have seen your post before. Were you having a grinder issue?

Do you have it on a 40 amp breaker? My concern was that my power cable for it is very thick. Looking it up seems like a 60 amp breaker cable. And i wanted to make sure it doesnt require more volts with a converter than 220. Everything on the machine seems original i can’t find any engine tags to tell what my hp is im guessing it’s a 9 as well but never know. There does seem to be new electrical panels on the machine on/off switch external so i dont know if its plug is factory or not.

Messed with it a little bit today the table up and down adjust seems to not be doing anything. It spins the bearing but not the chain. I can feel it catch for a moment then it just free spins. That regardless of the lever under the table being engaged or not. I also see a lot of buildup on all the inner workings.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Are you in the US? Your electrical terminology is confusing and throwing me off. What gauge is the cord your talking about?

Wiring / cord is rated in gauge and has a correlation to safe usage below a certain amount of amps, but is not rated in amps. Breakers and circuits and motors are rated in amps at a given voltage.

The FLA (full load amps) on this motor will be in the ~25 amp range @ 220v 3 phase. That is a different thing than 220v single phase. This varies on the converter and efficiencies, etc, but I have to use a 70 amp (single phase 220v) breaker to power my digital phase converter that will then output up to 36 amps (three phase 220v)

From there I have a 3 phase sub panel with 3 phase circuits / breakers and appropriately sized receptacles - both 20 amp and 30 amp. 10/3 ga (+ ground) wire for the 30 amp 3 phase wiring.

I have seen power cords that were very thick and only 12 gauge wire inside. The outer size and thickness of cord wire does not exactly translate to larger ga wire inside as there are so many different types of cord. You want your planer power cord to be 10 ga minimum for a motor that size on a 30 amp, 3 phase, 220v circuit (if its 220v and same specs as mine, that is.)

As to whether it is wired for 220v or 440v, I don’t know without motor tags, but taking a look at the plug itself and seeing what it’s rated for may be an indicator, though not foolproof. Same goes for looking at the switch / starter components.

[Kevin Jenness]

You might want to cough up $6 so you can post some pictures and get slightly more informed responses.

You won't get anywhere without 3 phase power, whether from a digital or rotary converter or a variable frequency drive. As Philip said, the vfd option is complicated by the presence of two motors. In any case, you need to establish the motor specs and figure out how to power it, at which point you can decide how big a breaker and conductor you need on a 230v single phase supply circuit. If it is 9 hp it will probably draw around 35 amps on single phase. I'm not sure how to suss out the motor without an id tag except to pull it, run it under power somewhere and meter the current draw. It may be just as easy to take the whole machine, which would let you assess the mechanical parts under power. Maybe you can find someone locally with a portable three phase generator who could come to your shop to do the needful. I take it you aren't in communication with the previous owner?

[Richard Coers]

Brake cleaner is acetone and will soften or remove paint. Kerosene is a common cleaner that also lubricates a little. I would never use the wire size to determine the breaker size. Someone could easily have changed to wire. Technically, you should have a shut off on the line wire and hard wire the machine to that for safety.

[Warren Lake]

used all kinds of cleaners. on the side here just wd40, on the head used lacquer reducer. Ive used purple automotive cleaner as you can mix any strength you want test stuff to be sure its not too strong. Goal here is just to clean and inspect what is there and photo damage.

P1610593.jpg P1610827a.jpgP1610850.jpg

[Jesse Shriver]

Are you in the US? Your electrical terminology is confusing and throwing me off. What gauge is the cord your talking about?

Wiring / cord is rated in gauge and has a correlation to safe usage below a certain amount of amps, but is not rated in amps. Breakers and circuits and motors are rated in amps at a given voltage.

The FLA (full load amps) on this motor will be in the ~25 amp range @ 220v 3 phase. That is a different thing than 220v single phase. This varies on the converter and efficiencies, etc, but I have to use a 70 amp (single phase 220v) breaker to power my digital phase converter that will then output up to 36 amps (three phase 220v)

From there I have a 3 phase sub panel with 3 phase circuits / breakers and appropriately sized receptacles - both 20 amp and 30 amp. 10/3 ga (+ ground) wire for the 30 amp 3 phase wiring.

I have seen power cords that were very thick and only 12 gauge wire inside. The outer size and thickness of cord wire does not exactly translate to larger ga wire inside as there are so many different types of cord. You want your planer power cord to be 10 ga minimum for a motor that size on a 30 amp, 3 phase, 220v circuit (if its 220v and same specs as mine, that is.)

As to whether it is wired for 220v or 440v, I don’t know without motor tags, but taking a look at the plug itself and seeing what it’s rated for may be an indicator, though not foolproof. Same goes for looking at the switch / starter components.

IMG_3221.jpgIMG_3207.jpg
IMG_3208.jpg
I have a pencil beside the cable in the first image showing the wire gauge. My terminology is off because i clearly am not an electrician or do any electrical. But I’m down to learn what i can.

Someone suggested this phase converter i was looking into it.
IMG_3222.jpg

[Kevin Jenness]

My guess is the original controls crapped out and somebody replaced the motor starter and put a massively oversized supply cable on it. Does the motor appear to be the original vintage? I bet there is a tag on it that you could find with a cellphone or a mirror and a flashlight. I wouldn't put much stock in a $100 phase converter but what do I know? A good quality phase converter is a good investment and will make possible future similar acquisitions. If you can get that machine going and it's not thrashed it will be a great planer, pretty near invincible one might say.

Link to Philip Mitchell's post on his S50 https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....0-planer/page5 There is another on the same machine entitled "Italian Arn acquired" on owwm.org

[Nick Crivello]

That kinda looks like 10/4 SOOW cord. I wouldn't worry about the wiring size, the cord you have is sufficient so long as it's in good shape.

Are you continuing to attempt powering the machine up with 220v single phase?

Phillip can tell you how to get at the motors, it's highly unusual for any electric motors to not have some kind of data plate on them. That SCM will probably not have it on the outside of the machine.

The large newish looking electrical box on the right side is a disconnect switch; it's probably setup to be used in a hardwire configuration.

The "phase converter" you listed is not a Rotary phase converter, it's a very cheap chinese made Variable Frequency drive (VFD), it would probably be my last choice in trying to motivate a 9hp planer. American Rotary or Phase perfect are two companies among others that make a quality product. Expect to pay in the $1500-3500 range. Some people are enterprising enough to make their own rpc but I wouldn't recommend that in this situation.