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Perhaps because it would mandate a technology that two of their competitors already have and they would have to invest perhaps millions of dollars to develop or license so it would negatively impact their profits, at least in the near term.Originally Posted by Jimmy Harris
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I think it is reasonable to expect, that if the technology is mandated for all new saws sold, it won't be long before it becomes mandatory for commercial shops, schools etc. No reason to expect it will become mandatory for hobby shops. I believe there are already many safety regulations that commercial shops must comply with that don't apply to hobby shops. Doubt if many of our hobby shops would pass a commercial shop inspection.
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Would you say the same about seatbelts, airbags, guardrails on highways, sprinkler systems in buildings? Do they also just "minimize injuries after being unsafe"? I think something that prevents serious injury does make you safer as do safe practices, best if we have or practice both.
Contributor
These are more questions about human nature
I agree those items reduce injury after the fact, they don't do anything or at least very little that helps prevent the initial need for them. they are insurance for when things go wrong.
They don't always change behavior as you suggest. People still remove guards and safety devices, People with SawStops still manage to trigger them. The act of installing a safety device does not automatically make people behave safely.
My point was that I would prefer to see more emphasis on education so there is less of a need to save people from themselves. Knowing how and why these accidents happen, goes a long way in preventing the behavior that often leads to injuries.
We will see what happens after the ruling and what happens to the numbers of incidents. While they should all be less severe, will the overall number go up, down or remain the same.
Time will tell.
Contributor
We will see what happens after the ruling and what happens to the numbers of incidents. While they should all be less severe, will the overall number go up, down or remain the same.
Time will tell.[/QUOTE]
I'm in a SawStop FB owners group of a little over 16k members. While most activation posts are about getting their miter gauge in to the blade, or some unknown reason. It's surprising there is still more then I would expect where they got their hand or finger in the blade. Did it save them? Yes, and while it's true anyone can have an accident. It's also true some people are accidents waiting for a place to happen.
Contributor
Would it be a 1-day or 2-day course so people learn that taking off the blade guard and splitting mechanism may lead to an injury from the spinning blade or kickback?
I know of, or have seen, a lot of users running saws without this basic safety equipment and these are definitely not newbies who just got a saw and I'm sure they are well aware of the hazard but do it anyway.
I agree that education can be useful for less common causes but there is a lot of information already available explaining those things. So do we mandate a training course before you can take your new saw out of the store? Maybe a table saw operator's license?
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Here's a link to James Hamilton AKA Stumpy Nubs on this topic. gives some good insight into the saw industry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxKkuDduYLk
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The CPSC says it's not within their power to mandate a course or license, it's in the proposed ruling.
This is slightly straying off topic.
There are basically two kinds of safety, passive and active.
A SawStop type system, along with your sprinklers and airbags are passive, they do nothing UNTIL an accident happens.
An Active system is (or should be) engaged the entire time you're using the saw, the guard/kickback device and your brain.
At the end of the day, making all saws flesh sensing, is going to be a positive step in terms of serious injuries avoided.
My concern is that making the saw "safer" and doing nothing to make the operator act safely is lazy and shifts to responsibility. I fear it will no longer be the operator being unsafe and got hurt but rather the saw failed to keep the operator safe and the operator got hurt. The blame is now shifted to the machine.
I am all in favor of having passive systems in the background for the times when things go wrong but too often this is the only area given attention. I would like to see more attention given to the Active portion of the problem, using a saw safely, so that the passive systems are needed as little as possible and complacency is avoided.
https://news.clemson.edu/the-safer-y...-might-behave/
Contributor
Edward, I tend to agree with your perspective in your last post.
Based on my personal experience (of one!) I do not believe at all I drive faster or more recklessly than I should because of the seat-belts, air bags, etc. I don't even think of them being there.
I don't do unsafe things knowingly on my saw because it has a guard - I'd go as far to say, that the presence of the guard reminds me there is a blade nearby requiring caution -it is much more obvious than a blade 1" above the table.
I don't know how you go about training to make people aware that you always have to be careful if they don't have the common sense to realize it or should I say, act on it. It certainly is not a secret that table saws, for example, can seriously injure.
Member
Just putting a good riving knife and blade guard can significantly reduce injuries without making tools cost $500+ more. Instead nearly all companies put cheap, crappy stamped steel guards just to remove liability. I got my new Harvey TS a few months ago and I love the riving knife system and overheard dust control/blade guard. It was well designed and actually works.
Contributor
Are you trying to tell me that a Tablesaw has a spinning saw blade and I shouldn't touch it?
Next thing is you'll be telling me is, don't touch the stove or don't stick my finger in the electrical outlet.
A physical guard not only serves as a reminder every time you look at the saw but keeps flying debris contained. I use mine as much as possible.
Contributor
If you want to touch it do it on the side. Also when its really cold out dont put your tongue on the door.
Contributor
I double dog dare you
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I watched the James Hamilton video referenced above and agree that it is excellent. I do wonder how this will all fall out, particularly with respect to sliding tablesaws.
I have lost part of a digit (successfully reattached thankfully) from a Unisaw. After a cut was over and I had turned off the saw, as I turned to go my left hand drifted too close. A nearly stopped blade still has more than enough oomph.
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Hopefully that was just a double “hot dog” dare.
Last edited by Todd Zucker; 04-04-2024 at 7:41 PM.
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