Hot Glue added to the workholding arsinal

[Jim Becker]

I recently took advantage of a 15% off coupon at HFT and picked up the Bauer hot glue gun that matched the battery system I have for a bunch of other Bauer tools I happen to own. I did this because I was intrigued about using it for some material work holding on the CNC, having seen this method employed by a bunch of folks "out there". I had some things to cut for a friend this week, so I put it to the test. It actually works quite nicely, although I will note that it's best for holding rough lumber or ply rather than things with porus 'finished' edges because of needing to knock it off after the cut. For this first experience, I did place a few clamps to supplement against lateral movement, but in the end, I do not believe they were needed. Note also that this particular cutting was not "heavy work" with a lot of lateral force...it was merely cutting recesses for the resin inlay that my friend does before selling the items I help him out with. I'm going to continue to work with this method when it's practical to do so as it will reduce the use of screws. And that includes on my slab flattening table, too.

This was the setup for the first test.

IMG_6661.jpg Cover.jpg

BTW, my friend asked for a video of the process to show his clients and I'll share that here just for fun. Boring stuff, but...



This was the stuff I cut for him on Friday.

IMG_6680.jpg

[Steven Cooper2]

It's certainly handy.

I'm a bit new to the cnc thing, but hot glue really excels for getting rough stuff managed while I face the other side as it can bridge a 1/8 gap fairly easily.

[John TenEyck]

I love those little side jobs like you're doing, Jim. They often present some new programming challenges, and they put a little money into my pocket that I tell myself helps justify what I spent on the machine.

John

[Jim Becker]

I love those little side jobs like you're doing, Jim. They often present some new programming challenges, and they put a little money into my pocket that I tell myself helps justify what I spent on the machine.

John

I look at them this way...they pay for new tools. I have my eye on a RO-90 to solve a need in my shop. But, yes, they can be skill builders in some cases and sometimes that means a revision. The graphic in that video was originally done with a v-carve pocketing technique, but there was a lot of issue with "crispy" wood getting chipped away because things were originally drawn too close together. It's now been simplified to standard multi-tool pocketing which provides corners that are sharp enough but also full depth for the resin so nothing gets lost when sanding things out. A 1mm tool, while round, doesn't look materially worse than the v-bit for this particular application. Obviously, v-carving text remains the go-to for the font he desires. Revamping the drawing took a fraction of the time that the original did because I have a few years of practice now. The other good thing about this kind of stuff is I get a lot of extra experience with vector manipulation at the node editing level because so many graphics "suck" from the sources and have to be manipulated to bring them to usable and any that are traced from bitmaps also bring out learned skills.

While the Windows instance on my Mac was current with this work, I also drew out a small cabinet project that's next on the list. Different kind of cutting, but also quick to do.

[Alex Zeller]

I can't watch the video on this laptop but it looks like you just put glue on the edges in a couple of spots. Did you just glue it directly to your spoilboard? If so is the glue easy to remove or do you have to do a light surfacing to get it flat again?

After using my neighbor's CNC router with a vacuum pump that's the direction I'm leaning. I'm thinking of making something like the Storm vacuum system. I just made a new cooling system for my spindle that has lots of excess cooling capacity so I thought I would wrap the vacuum motors in soft copper to provide extra cooling for them. But every technique that works for holding down work is always useful.

[Mel Fulks]

Well now we have 2 hot glues ! They need 2B differentiated ! The REAL HOT GLUE is the old animal stuff. Has No Odor…

IT’S A STENCH !

[Jim Becker]

I can't watch the video on this laptop but it looks like you just put glue on the edges in a couple of spots. Did you just glue it directly to your spoilboard? If so is the glue easy to remove or do you have to do a light surfacing to get it flat again?

After using my neighbor's CNC router with a vacuum pump that's the direction I'm leaning. I'm thinking of making something like the Storm vacuum system. I just made a new cooling system for my spindle that has lots of excess cooling capacity so I thought I would wrap the vacuum motors in soft copper to provide extra cooling for them. But every technique that works for holding down work is always useful.

Yes, you just build up at the edges so it overlaps both the table and the workpiece and let the stuff fully cool. Removal is easy...just knock them off and if a little extra pursuasion is necessary, use a sharp chisel to release them. No need to resurface the spoi board and an minor damage on the surface is no worse than driving a lot of screws.

Regarding vacuum tables, that particular thing is good for sheet goods/large components because they have enough surface area for gravity (14 lbs per square inch) to hold the material down. The BlackBox Storm is good for a smaller machine, but be aware that because it uses standard vacuum cleaner motors, it's LOUD, hot, and isn't designed to run all day long. Vacuum tables are also not good for small parts because they do not have the surface area required. They need a fixture and a different kind of vacuum pump to hold properly.

[David Falkner]

Good video, Jim. I also watched all of your shop build videos - nice, I'm envious!

[Michael Burnside]

That’s great Jim. I wasn’t sure if the MDF would be porous enough that the hot glue would adequately hold, looks like it worked perfectly from the video. Those came out great, well done! There is a lot of “behind the scenes” work there that people that aren’t familiar with CNC don’t realize. I actually am just finishing up a set of floating nightstands and I forced myself to design/build it almost exclusively using the CNC as a test. I’ll be posting it shortly, but everywhere I looked I couldn’t find that “easy” button people talk about LOL. They turned out fantastic, but it’s a lot of prep to get there.

Funny enough I just picked up an RO-90 and it’s awesome. I “justified” it on my last project and for this current project it came in clutch to get into some tight spots. I have the ETS 125 3 and 5 as well as the RO 150 and honestly the RO-90 fits into it’s own category it seems.

[Mel Fulks]

Some years back there was a new glue , and everyone bought it. It was easy to use, only problem was the work fell apart.
The Stradivari violins were glued with animal glue, when they need some work it’s done with animal glue.

[Alex Zeller]

Yes, you just build up at the edges so it overlaps both the table and the workpiece and let the stuff fully cool. Removal is easy...just knock them off and if a little extra pursuasion is necessary, use a sharp chisel to release them. No need to resurface the spoi board and an minor damage on the surface is no worse than driving a lot of screws.

Regarding vacuum tables, that particular thing is good for sheet goods/large components because they have enough surface area for gravity (14 lbs per square inch) to hold the material down. The BlackBox Storm is good for a smaller machine, but be aware that because it uses standard vacuum cleaner motors, it's LOUD, hot, and isn't designed to run all day long. Vacuum tables are also not good for small parts because they do not have the surface area required. They need a fixture and a different kind of vacuum pump to hold properly.

It's nice to know that it comes off the spoilboard easily. The machine I was using had a 20hp vacuum pump, not something most people would have the ability to supply power to. But it's sized that big to overcome poorly sealing work on a 5'x10' table with a machine that moves at speeds (like 1200imp) that I'll never reach with cutters up to 6" in diameter. Just like the hot glue, as long as you stay within its limit you'll be fine. You would be surprised just how quickly 14 lbs per inch add up. A 2" square object will have almost 60 lbs of force holding it down (at absolute vacuum). The vacuum cleaner style systems don't get down nearly that low. From what I've been reading they don't need to. Yes, they are noisy but with liquid cooling I'm hoping that I can deaden some of the sound. Since I rarely do anything very small the speed of a vacuum is appealing to me.

[Steven O Smith]

I recently tried hot glue. Don't use it if your bit will be coming through the side of the stock and into the glue. You end up with a blob of glue well attached to your bit.

[Curt Harms]

I don't know about wood to wood joints but when I did some solid surface work I used hot melt glue to fasten clamping blocks to the solid surface material. The joint was strong enough to pull the pieces together and when the solid surface adhesive was set I spritzed the block/solid surface joint with alcohol, waited a minute and the blocks came off with no glue residue on the solid surface. I assume on a wood/wood joint there'd be glue residue somewhere.

[Jim Becker]

That’s great Jim. I wasn’t sure if the MDF would be porous enough that the hot glue would adequately hold, looks like it worked perfectly from the video. Those came out great, well done! There is a lot of “behind the scenes” work there that people that aren’t familiar with CNC don’t realize. I actually am just finishing up a set of floating nightstands and I forced myself to design/build it almost exclusively using the CNC as a test. I’ll be posting it shortly, but everywhere I looked I couldn’t find that “easy” button people talk about LOL. They turned out fantastic, but it’s a lot of prep to get there.

Yes, there can be an incredible amount of work involved before the tooling hits the material, but that level of thought can also be beneficial. I consider my CNC "just another tool in the shop" and I use it when it either adds an advantage or when using it provides for an interesting design/build experience. I like doing "digital design" in that respect as well as virtually cutting and revising. The machine does not replace any of the other tools I own and use. In fact, I use hand tools more now for whatever reasons.

Funny enough I just picked up an RO-90 and it’s awesome. I “justified” it on my last project and for this current project it came in clutch to get into some tight spots. I have the ETS 125 3 and 5 as well as the RO 150 and honestly the RO-90 fits into it’s own category it seems.

I poo-poo-ed this tool for a long time, but that was because I frankly didn't understand it. A recent video by Sedge "fixed" that misunderstanding and I can see where the PO-90 can fill multiple roles due to it's compactness for shaping, sanding and polishing as well as having the delta pad for detail sanding into tight corners. Granted, those are not everyday uses, but that's not why I add tools at this point. I have all the everyday things...specialties that solve problems are where my now infrequent purchases go. And it's nice to let someone else pay for them through a little collaboration. The other tool I'm seriously considering adding to my shop also involves sanding...an edge sander. I see some applications for that in planned projects.

I recently tried hot glue. Don't use it if your bit will be coming through the side of the stock and into the glue. You end up with a blob of glue well attached to your bit.

That's a good caution for folks, Steven.

[Jim Becker]

Just a follow-up...I continue to love using hot glue for appropriate hold-down tasks. It was a game changer for some material flattening I needed to do on the CNC due to width over the past few days and since there was minimal lateral pressure when taking off only a millimeter at a time, more or less, no other support was used. It's certainly not the right solution for every situation, but it's clearly going to result in less "new holes" appearing in my spoilboard from screws.