Best Shaper Under $5000?

[Josh Baldwin]

Hey everyone I have a nice router table, but I've been thinking of upgrading to a shaper. I'm thinking 5hp would be ideal, but I'm not sure what other features exactly I should be looking for.

There are 3 that seem like a good fit and I'm hoping to get some feedback based on their specs and/or personal experiences. I'm also open to other recommendations of course:

Laguna Pro
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/l...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Oliver - Seems like a steal at this price
https://www.elitemetaltools.com/tool...gaApi_EALw_wcB

Hammer - I like the slider but it's only 4hp and costs $5k
https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/p...per-f3-p421957

Thanks everyone for the help!

[Cary Falk]

I have the Laguna Pro 5hp. I had a Grizzly 1026 before. I believe a shaper lives and dies by the fence. I love the fence on the Laguna and hated the one on the Grizzly. The Oliver fence looks similar to the Laguna. The Hammer has a tilting spindle but I don't know how much I would use that. If you have any specific questions on the Laguna let me know.

[Richard Coers]

There is never a "best", just one that has the features someone likes. Your listing of 3 proves the point.

[Josh Baldwin]

There is never a "best", just one that has the features someone likes. Your listing of 3 proves the point.

Yea I guess I'm wondering from people that know more about shapers than I do what features or pros some of these have that actually matter to people.

[Bill Dufour]

The Oliver is just one made in China with a Oliver tag glued on. I have no idea about quality and features. I would not be surprised if Grizzly does not sell the same one at lower prices including reasonable shipping.
Only harry home shop here but I think a sliding table would be very nice. A tilting spindle seems nice but adds more to adjust and fall out of alinement.
Very seriously look at used. Not much to go wrong on a shaper unless you need cnc control on spindle height.
Bill D.

[Bill Dufour]

To get quality, 5hp up, you need to use a VFD and get a three phase machine. Or you can swap out the motor for about the same cost. A vfd will give you soft start and braking.
Bill D.
just to show cost range with feeder. No way I would use a 7.5hp without a feeder
https://www.ebay.com/itm/35550166833...ampid%3APL_CLK

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29628991000...temCondition=4

[Bill Dufour]

To get quality 5hp up you need to use a VFD and get a three phase machine. On ebay today a 7.5 Hp VFD is around $200. Or you can swap out the motor for a used one at about double the cost. A vfd will give you soft start and braking.
The Oliver and Laguna look identical to me except for switch placement
Bill D.

[Bill Dufour]

How many amps does your shop have ? Can it handle a 7.5 Hp single phase motor startup with the DC and AC on.
Bill D

[Josh Baldwin]

How many amps does your shop have ? Can it handle a 7.5 Hp single phase motor startup with the DC and AC on.
Bill D

Hey Bill thanks for all the info. So it was my understanding that I would need a phase converter to go to 3 phase and it would be something like $2k per machine for a good one. I'm not sure I need anything more than 5hp to be honest. I'm a 1 man custom furniture maker and I just can't see 5hp not being enough power to do what I need to do, but maybe I'm wrong. I just know my current 4hp jointer/planer and 4hp felder saw cut everything effortlessly. I was thinking of jumping to 5hp separate jointer/planers in the near future, but again I just can't imagine needing more power than that. I wired my shop myself, so I can run whatever amperage is necessary.

[Bill Dufour]

What is this machine?
Bill D
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17123391831...Bk9SR5DK8-XNYw

[Aaron Inami]

Be aware that when using a VFD on a machine, you cannot have any complicated circuits or DC motors in the machine. A VFD is designed to be connected direclty to a motor. I would investigate taht SAC T145 shaper to see what kind of internal circuits it uses. It does have manual raise/lower/tilt adjustments, but there are additional controls on the front. If your electrically creative, you can probably wire in a VFD between the machine control circuits and the motor.

[Jared Sankovich]

Be aware that when using a VFD on a machine, you cannot have any complicated circuits or DC motors in the machine. A VFD is designed to be connected direclty to a motor. I would investigate taht SAC T145 shaper to see what kind of internal circuits it uses. It does have manual raise/lower/tilt adjustments, but there are additional controls on the front. If your electrically creative, you can probably wire in a VFD between the machine control circuits and the motor.

Rewiring the low voltage vfd controls to interface with the shaper front panel is trivial. That SAC is fully manual tilt/rise/fall. The only potential additional hoops is if it had a motor brake and or power spindle lock.

[Phillip Mitchell]

No one has asked a few of the important questions here yet so I'll do it:

What are you hoping / intending to use the shaper for and have you ever used one before?

Do you realize that you will likely spend more than the cost of the machine (even at ~$5k) eventually in tooling if you buy quality, new tooling in order to be versatile and flexible?

Not saying this to deter you, but your goals matter in terms of recommendations of a light duty 3-5 HP Taiwanese / Chinese machine compared to a 6+ HP mid-heavy duty machine (that is likely 3 phase.)

I would buy none of the 3 you listed in the OP and look for something used Euro, 3 Phase, 6HP +, 1 1/4" spindle and manual controls for half of ~$5k and buy a VFD for well under $500 and be done with it and have a machine much better than the new ones you linked to.

The problem with the lighter duty machines, aside from being *lighter duty* motors, spindle, quills, weight/mass, etc etc is that often times the fences suck and nobody wants to use a shaper with a fence that sucks.

Also HP of the motor is not the critical part of a shaper, IMO. It is nice to have plenty of HP but the other parts of the machine are more critical to me than motor size. That being said, I do not complain about the power and smoothness of the 12 hp spindle motor on my Wadkin shaper, but I didn't buy it based on motor HP.

You should pick up a copy of this book below and study it, watch the Roy Sutton videos on YT (even though they are old, they are still quite good for safety and fundamentals) and definitely pick up a decent power feeder if you are doing more than pattern work.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...RoCnCQQAvD_BwE

[Brian Holcombe]

As Jared mentions, a vfd can be wired for use with push button controls.

[Josh Baldwin]

No one has asked a few of the important questions here yet so I'll do it:

What are you hoping / intending to use the shaper for and have you ever used one before?

Do you realize that you will likely spend more than the cost of the machine (even at ~$5k) eventually in tooling if you buy quality, new tooling in order to be versatile and flexible?

Not saying this to deter you, but your goals matter in terms of recommendations of a light duty 3-5 HP Taiwanese / Chinese machine compared to a 6+ HP mid-heavy duty machine (that is likely 3 phase.)

I would buy none of the 3 you listed in the OP and look for something used Euro, 3 Phase, 6HP +, 1 1/4" spindle and manual controls for half of ~$5k and buy a VFD for well under $500 and be done with it and have a machine much better than the new ones you linked to.

The problem with the lighter duty machines, aside from being *lighter duty* motors, spindle, quills, weight/mass, etc etc is that often times the fences suck and nobody wants to use a shaper with a fence that sucks.

Also HP of the motor is not the critical part of a shaper, IMO. It is nice to have plenty of HP but the other parts of the machine are more critical to me than motor size. That being said, I do not complain about the power and smoothness of the 12 hp spindle motor on my Wadkin shaper, but I didn't buy it based on motor HP.

You should pick up a copy of this book below and study it, watch the Roy Sutton videos on YT (even though they are old, they are still quite good for safety and fundamentals) and definitely pick up a decent power feeder if you are doing more than pattern work.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...RoCnCQQAvD_BwE

Hey Phillip I definitely should have clarified some of this stuff in the original post. I am not a full time cabinet maker or crown moulding maker.

My goal is to use the shaper like an upgraded router table. I'd like to be able to flush trim without having to take several passes with a router bit for example. I'd like to be able to make lock miters in one pass. I'd like to be able to use rails and stiles bits with cleaner results. I will not be making raised panel cabinet doors. I build furniture and the main thing I use the router table for is definitely flush trimming wood to templates.

I definitely appreciate the 3 phase/old school giant machinery crowd and what you're all looking for out of a machine. However, I have several good friends who have these "cheaper" machines and I've never heard any of them tell me they felt limited by them. That's not to say they're as good, I understand they're not as heavy duty. But I also do personally value "new/works out of the box" vs spending days setting up/dialing in/repairing older models. So while I do think I could be swayed into the 3 phase crowd, when I see these older machines listed from brands that don't even exist anymore and/or don't make parts available if repairs are needed, then that's where I can't personally make that leap.

Would you mind explaining to me what would suck about the fences on the Hammer or Laguna for example? I'm just trying to understand what I should be looking for out of a good fence.

Thanks for all the help!