Best Shaper Under $5000?

[Cary Falk]

Hey Cary do you ever feel like the 5hp isn't enough power? To me it seems like it would be more than enough, but just wondering your thoughts on it.

I have never felt 5hp was not enough on any of my tools. I am not a business. The largest cutter I spin is a Freud carbide insert raised panel cutter. I usually take multiple cuts at slower feed speeds to reduce tear out and get better cut quality. I wanted to add the only negative on the Laguna is the above table controls. This gets in the way of the power feeder sometimes. I am trying to figure how to mount it under the front of the table like it's twin the PM2700. Grizzly now has the G0900 which is also a twin but does not come with the router bit collets if that matters.

[Jared Sankovich]

Be aware that when using a VFD on a machine, you cannot have any complicated circuits or DC motors in the machine. A VFD is designed to be connected direclty to a motor. I would investigate taht SAC T145 shaper to see what kind of internal circuits it uses. It does have manual raise/lower/tilt adjustments, but there are additional controls on the front. If your electrically creative, you can probably wire in a VFD between the machine control circuits and the motor.

Rewiring the low voltage vfd controls to interface with the shaper front panel is trivial. That SAC is fully manual tilt/rise/fall. The only potential additional hoops is if it had a motor brake and or power spindle lock.

[Phillip Mitchell]

No one has asked a few of the important questions here yet so I'll do it:

What are you hoping / intending to use the shaper for and have you ever used one before?

Do you realize that you will likely spend more than the cost of the machine (even at ~$5k) eventually in tooling if you buy quality, new tooling in order to be versatile and flexible?

Not saying this to deter you, but your goals matter in terms of recommendations of a light duty 3-5 HP Taiwanese / Chinese machine compared to a 6+ HP mid-heavy duty machine (that is likely 3 phase.)

I would buy none of the 3 you listed in the OP and look for something used Euro, 3 Phase, 6HP +, 1 1/4" spindle and manual controls for half of ~$5k and buy a VFD for well under $500 and be done with it and have a machine much better than the new ones you linked to.

The problem with the lighter duty machines, aside from being *lighter duty* motors, spindle, quills, weight/mass, etc etc is that often times the fences suck and nobody wants to use a shaper with a fence that sucks.

Also HP of the motor is not the critical part of a shaper, IMO. It is nice to have plenty of HP but the other parts of the machine are more critical to me than motor size. That being said, I do not complain about the power and smoothness of the 12 hp spindle motor on my Wadkin shaper, but I didn't buy it based on motor HP.

You should pick up a copy of this book below and study it, watch the Roy Sutton videos on YT (even though they are old, they are still quite good for safety and fundamentals) and definitely pick up a decent power feeder if you are doing more than pattern work.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...RoCnCQQAvD_BwE

[Brian Holcombe]

As Jared mentions, a vfd can be wired for use with push button controls.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hey everyone I have a nice router table, but I've been thinking of upgrading to a shaper. I'm thinking 5hp would be ideal, but I'm not sure what other features exactly I should be looking for.

There are 3 that seem like a good fit and I'm hoping to get some feedback based on their specs and/or personal experiences. I'm also open to other recommendations of course:

Laguna Pro
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/l...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Oliver - Seems like a steal at this price
https://www.elitemetaltools.com/tool...gaApi_EALw_wcB

Hammer - I like the slider but it's only 4hp and costs $5k
https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/p...per-f3-p421957

Thanks everyone for the help!

I’ve owned the Hammer B3 for 14 years, it works very well, it’s nice to have a sliding table, tilting spindle shaper (same as the F3)

3Kw is plenty of power for a shaper of that size

Regards. Rod

[Josh Baldwin]

No one has asked a few of the important questions here yet so I'll do it:

What are you hoping / intending to use the shaper for and have you ever used one before?

Do you realize that you will likely spend more than the cost of the machine (even at ~$5k) eventually in tooling if you buy quality, new tooling in order to be versatile and flexible?

Not saying this to deter you, but your goals matter in terms of recommendations of a light duty 3-5 HP Taiwanese / Chinese machine compared to a 6+ HP mid-heavy duty machine (that is likely 3 phase.)

I would buy none of the 3 you listed in the OP and look for something used Euro, 3 Phase, 6HP +, 1 1/4" spindle and manual controls for half of ~$5k and buy a VFD for well under $500 and be done with it and have a machine much better than the new ones you linked to.

The problem with the lighter duty machines, aside from being *lighter duty* motors, spindle, quills, weight/mass, etc etc is that often times the fences suck and nobody wants to use a shaper with a fence that sucks.

Also HP of the motor is not the critical part of a shaper, IMO. It is nice to have plenty of HP but the other parts of the machine are more critical to me than motor size. That being said, I do not complain about the power and smoothness of the 12 hp spindle motor on my Wadkin shaper, but I didn't buy it based on motor HP.

You should pick up a copy of this book below and study it, watch the Roy Sutton videos on YT (even though they are old, they are still quite good for safety and fundamentals) and definitely pick up a decent power feeder if you are doing more than pattern work.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...RoCnCQQAvD_BwE

Hey Phillip I definitely should have clarified some of this stuff in the original post. I am not a full time cabinet maker or crown moulding maker.

My goal is to use the shaper like an upgraded router table. I'd like to be able to flush trim without having to take several passes with a router bit for example. I'd like to be able to make lock miters in one pass. I'd like to be able to use rails and stiles bits with cleaner results. I will not be making raised panel cabinet doors. I build furniture and the main thing I use the router table for is definitely flush trimming wood to templates.

I definitely appreciate the 3 phase/old school giant machinery crowd and what you're all looking for out of a machine. However, I have several good friends who have these "cheaper" machines and I've never heard any of them tell me they felt limited by them. That's not to say they're as good, I understand they're not as heavy duty. But I also do personally value "new/works out of the box" vs spending days setting up/dialing in/repairing older models. So while I do think I could be swayed into the 3 phase crowd, when I see these older machines listed from brands that don't even exist anymore and/or don't make parts available if repairs are needed, then that's where I can't personally make that leap.

Would you mind explaining to me what would suck about the fences on the Hammer or Laguna for example? I'm just trying to understand what I should be looking for out of a good fence.

Thanks for all the help!

[Josh Baldwin]

I’ve owned the Hammer B3 for 14 years, it works very well, it’s nice to have a sliding table, tilting spindle shaper (same as the F3)

3Kw is plenty of power for a shaper of that size

Regards. Rod

Great, thanks for the info Rod.

Ok good to know, I wasn't sure about the power compared to the others. Is there anything you feel limited by with the Hammer? I'm curious if you have an opinion of how your workflow/abilities might change if you had one of these massive 3 phase machines that some people are recommending. I do feel like they're correct that there are certainly benefits to the size/power of those shapers, but just wondering if you have any thoughts compared to the Hammer for example.

Also, any accessories you would recommend other than a good power feeder for the Hammer?

[Brian Holcombe]

3ph is great, It’s nice not to feel limited based on that. So the added cost/effort of getting some sort of phase conversion is helpful.

I have my 7hp Martin running on 1ph with a VFD.

The reason many machines have large motors is simple. Large motors do not need to work as hard to accomplish the same task, therefore they live longer. Yes, you can run 3ph to its limit, doing so, wears the motor out faster. So, plan accordingly.

[Josh Baldwin]

Right now on ebay a no name 10hp VFD is under $200. That should run a 5hp motor fine if it is really rated for single phase input. You will need one for each machine. In theory you can switch between multiple machines if they are all using the same HP motors.
A single rotary converter can be used to supply all the three phase stuff in your shop. On ebay today a new American Rotary 10 hp is 1,200 delivered. A 20hp is under 2,000. It is recommended that a rotary be double the HP of the largest HP motor to get things started. A work around is to start some lower horsepower motors and let them run before turning on the too large motor. Jointer, duct collector, disk sander all work well as extra idler motors.
A FVD output can not be switched. All switching must be done VFD off or using the low voltage wiring from the vfd. This means any machine switches can not be used or they must be rewired to control just the VFD. Rotary use any switch any way you want.
Bill D

Thanks for all the info on the 3 phase setup Bill. I thought I needed a converter for each machine, so only needing 1 definitely makes it more attractive. I'm still not sure it makes sense for my situation, but I'll definitely consider it.

[Mike Wilkins]

I have a nice router table with a ton of bits, but in making a set of exterior doors I felt the need/want to get a shaper. I found a used Rockwell/Delta 3 HP shaper with a 3/4" spindle for a nice price, but found it limiting. That's when I got the itch to go bigger but not in the high horsepower realm like the Felder, Martin and others. I got the Hammer F3 shaper with sliding table, 1 1/4" spindle, tilting and 4 speeds. It is more than I need, especially since I am not a pro shop. But it has more than enough horsepower to run a wide assortment of cutters. Right now I am considering the router spindle for 1/2" bits and selling the router table. I can make a smaller table for using 1/4" shank bits; this would not take much space in my space-challenged shop.
Just be prepared to spend some serious coin on some good quality cutters.

[Rod Sheridan]

Great, thanks for the info Rod.

Ok good to know, I wasn't sure about the power compared to the others. Is there anything you feel limited by with the Hammer? I'm curious if you have an opinion of how your workflow/abilities might change if you had one of these massive 3 phase machines that some people are recommending. I do feel like they're correct that there are certainly benefits to the size/power of those shapers, but just wondering if you have any thoughts compared to the Hammer for example.

Also, any accessories you would recommend other than a good power feeder for the Hammer?

Hi, no a larger, more powerful shaper wouldn’t change my workflow..

I make everything from flooring to toys using the shaper, mostly furniture however.


I have a feeder, a safety bar kit for the fence opening and the tenon table/hood, as well as the curve guard for pattern shaping and sanding.

I also have a hold down clamp for end coping, tenons, bridle joints.

Below I’m grooving a rabbit toy, sanding a curved piece using a sanding drum and the curve guard, and making tenons.

Regards, Rod.
etc.IMG_2064.jpgIMG_1979.jpgIMG_0777.jpg

[Larry Edgerton]

[QUOTE=


I’ve had my eye on that Unitronics sliding table shaper on woodweb. Looks almost like a copy of a Martin T23. I don’t know much about them besides a little reading online, but that might also be a good value machine.

[/QUOTE]

I have a Unitronix double spindle and they are indeed a copy of Martin. The hoods are almost identical. They are HEAVY, mine weighs over 4000# with the feeder They use greasable bearings rather than the pump/oil system of Martin but I don't have a problem with that. There is a grease block on the front that has lines running to all the moving parts including bearings. I am extremely happy with mine, and I wish I had room for the one you are looking at, don't have a sliding table.

[Richard Daugird]

I have a VFD to run my metal working milling machine, was only a couple hundred bucks. Is it not true that you loose some power when using a rotary phase converter?

[Jared Sankovich]

I have a Unitronix double spindle and they are indeed a copy of Martin. The hoods are almost identical. They are HEAVY, mine weighs over 4000# with the feeder They use greasable bearings rather than the pump/oil system of Martin but I don't have a problem with that. There is a grease block on the front that has lines running to all the moving parts including bearings. I am extremely happy with mine, and I wish I had room for the one you are looking at, don't have a sliding table.

The dffa5 tilting unit with side table that was for sale awhile back was (listed) surprisingly light at 1400lbs.

[Brian Gumpper]

If you decide on the Laguna, here is the same machine different color at a lower price.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...e-shaper/g0900