Would you buy a house if Former Owner finished the Basement?

[Jim Becker]

The bathroom downstairs has definitely been re-done, I'm not sure what was there prior to the remodel.

Since the basement is on a slab, it's unlikely that this person dug up the floor to install the traps & etc for the toilet & shower drain.

I'll have my daughter ask...

In some jurisdictions, if the fixtures are merely replaced in the same location and connected to the original plumbing (within reason...replacing an old valve would be ok, for example) there may not be a permit required for the bathroom. Where I used to live was like that...I did not need a plumbing permit when I re-did the kitchen and powder room (and the original master bath upstairs) because it was merely a facelift with no new plumbing involved. But again, it's jurisdiction specific.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Over those years, I observed many of my neighbors finishing their basements. One of these neighbors was a contractor who finished basements for a living. And in those years, again and again, I saw a large dumpster dropped in the driveway right at the time my neighbors were putting their homes up for sale. Turned out none of their basement finish jobs met code. Even the job done by the contractor. They literally had to rip everything out down to the studs just to sell the house.

Respectfully, this sounds a bit dubious...

Who "required" this?

I sold a house in CO, recently, and beyond a line on the seller's disclosure form that said something like, "To the best of your knowledge, were permits obtained for any work that may have required them?" (which seemed to be worded in a way that intentionally provided plausible deniability...), no one asked or checked on any permits/renovations/etc.

You think the city is sending out an inspector on every home sale? Huh?

[Bill Dufour]

My city requires a permit to install a automatic sprinkler system. This has been code for twenty years or more. No permit for a sprinkler system has ever been pulled.
Bill D

[Stan Calow]

Around here, I am suspicious of finished basement walls covering up foundation cracks or water intrusion.

[mike stenson]

Respectfully, this sounds a bit dubious...

Who "required" this?

I sold a house in CO, recently, and beyond a line on the seller's disclosure form that said something like, "To the best of your knowledge, were permits obtained for any work that may have required them?" (which seemed to be worded in a way that intentionally provided plausible deniability...), no one asked or checked on any permits/renovations/etc.

You think the city is sending out an inspector on every home sale? Huh?

I pulled the permit history for every house I've bought. It's free, and easy. I would imagine that others do too.

[Perry Holbrook]

I would venture to say probably over 75% of homes have some type of work performed without permits

If this was not true, Home Depot and Lowes would not exist.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I pulled the permit history for every house I've bought. It's free, and easy. I would imagine that others do too.

So in the case of a finished basement, how do you know it wasn't finished by the original builder?

[Pat Germain]

Respectfully, this sounds a bit dubious...

Who "required" this?

I sold a house in CO, recently, and beyond a line on the seller's disclosure form that said something like, "To the best of your knowledge, were permits obtained for any work that may have required them?" (which seemed to be worded in a way that intentionally provided plausible deniability...), no one asked or checked on any permits/renovations/etc.

You think the city is sending out an inspector on every home sale? Huh?

I'm just telling you what happened. I saw it myself. I talked to the owners of the homes myself. It wasn't city inspectors. It was home inspectors hired by prospective buyers who saw the basements and said, "No bueno!". This was before the crazy housing market when people were buying houses with no inspection. The real estate agents advised nobody would by the houses if the basements weren't up to code; which they weren't.

You think they ripped out their basements for no reason? Huh? (Just being silly here.)

[Dan Friedrichs]

I'm just telling you what happened. I saw it myself. I talked to the owners of the homes myself. It wasn't city inspectors. It was home inspectors hired by prospective buyers who saw the basement and said, "No bueno!". This was before the crazy housing market when people were buying houses with no inspection. The real estate agents advised nobody would by the houses if the basements weren't up to code; which they weren't.

You think they ripped out their basements for no reason? Huh? (Just being silly here.)

I could see that happening if the work was clearly sub-par.

But no inspector is looking up permit history and leading buyers to tear out perfectly good work just because the paperwork wasn't right.

[Pat Germain]

I could see that happening if the work was clearly sub-par.

But no inspector is looking up permit history and leading buyers to tear out perfectly good work just because the paperwork wasn't right.

It wasn't perfectly good work. It looked OK, but it was work that didn't meet code. The inspectors saw the issues. They asked the homeowners if they had pulled permits for the work. When the homeowners said, "Nope. No permits", they had to tear it all out.

I admit I'm not an expert in this area of construction, codes and permits. Again, I'm just sharing what actually happened. This was a big reason why I never finished the basement in my house. To do it correctly with all the necessary permits and to comply with all the codes was very expensive. Many of my neighbors did it on the cheap without any permits and it came back to bite them. My next door neighbors paid a competent contractor who did pull all the permits and comply with the codes and it all worked out. But yeah, it was very expensive.

So, overall, my point here is be very careful about a basement which was finished by the homeowner. It could be fine. But it could also be a problem.

[Lee Schierer]

The problem with home inspections is they only look at the surface. Generally speaking they don't look any deeper than what you can see by opening a door or walking around a room. The house my daughter purchased had a basement that was done by the home owner, supposedly a custom home builder. None of the basement wiring had the ground wires that were present connected to anything. The outside motion lights were mounted directly to the vinyl soffit with no junction boxes. Multiple ground faults were installed in a single circuit. One outside had been relocated and the wire extended to a new location. The wires were wire nutted together and hanging out from the soffit, again no junction box. I doubt that any permits were pulled for the work. She did ask for a $500 credit to have an electrician come in and fix the known problems, which the seller paid for.

[Brian Elfert]

I don't know who finished the basement in my current house. Probably a previous homeowner. The electrical had all kinds of issues. I've probably pulled more electrical permits myself than since the house was built. More than 50% of the electrical in the house was touched or replaced when I first bought the house and I pulled a permit. I have replaced the breaker panel, replaced the meter base, added solar, and added a standby generator. I got permits for everything. If someone pulled a permit for the basement bathroom the inspector should be fired.

I went to the city and got a copy of the "building file" before I bought the house. The city has digitized everything so they sent me a PDF of every single permit and other piece of paper they have on file for my house. The house was in terrible condition so I knew I would be redoing everything on the main floor. I didn't care about permits since it all had to be redone inside and out.

[Roger Feeley]

When we were moving from the Kansas City area to the DC area, we were discouraged by the high housing prices. I required a basement shop and we just weren’t finding anything. Land is so expensive in Fairfax county that homeowners finish every space they can. Unfinished basements are practically non-existent. I finally asked the realtor to look for badly finished basements. I reasoned that a badly finished basement wouldn’t increase the value of the house so I wouldn’t take a hit when I de-finished it. We never did find anything we liked.

But there was a happy end8ng. Our daughter and SIL bought a place in Falls Church with about 7/8 acre. We wound up building a house on their land so we live about 30 feet from their house. And I have a 1300sqft unfinished basement for the shop. I joke that the modest size was a compromise. I wanted a 4000 sq ft metal building. Yeah, that wasn’t ever going to happen.

[Curt Harms]

Respectfully, this sounds a bit dubious...

Who "required" this?

I sold a house in CO, recently, and beyond a line on the seller's disclosure form that said something like, "To the best of your knowledge, were permits obtained for any work that may have required them?" (which seemed to be worded in a way that intentionally provided plausible deniability...), no one asked or checked on any permits/renovations/etc.

You think the city is sending out an inspector on every home sale? Huh?

Some municipalities require a Use and Occupancy (U&O) permit before a new owner can occupy the building. I imagine the extent of the inspection varies but yes all sales in that jurisdiction are supposed to have one.

[glenn bradley]

First, "Regular Home Inspection was done, and no major issues noted." in my experience this generally means nothing. Home inspectors are not on the hook for anything that they miss. Around here it is a sweet job for anyone who has even moderate building knowledge. Second, your Realtor should be able to answer questions regarding how to get things made whole with the city and the tax man. If she can't find another realtor. There are too many realtors to tolerate anything but top performance from one.

In general I agree that if it is just walls it is pretty hard to go too wrong. On the left coast, as long as you are not modifying any engineered aspects of the home or changing the roof line you can do quite a lot. Add electrical and you can void any fire insurance claims you many have. Likewise, plumbing can void coverage of many things. If the buyer is handy the offer can be contingent on a few cutouts in the walls and ceiling NOT revealing anything troubling. They should be prepared to repair these areas or pay for someone to do so. It's cheap insurance.

We passed on the home-before-the-home we are in now when the seller refused to have a "real" inspection of DIY remodeling work done as a condition of closing escrow. We all get to learn from out mistakes. We don't all get to learn from others mistakes if we so choose. I will hope for nice, clean, easy progression for the potential buyers.