Spindle gouge bevel angle?

[John Kananis]

I have a 1/2" sorby detail gouge that I have ground at 40° (also removed the heel) and it works ok now that I moved away from the jigs and started sharpening by hand... but it's still just an ok tool. I now have a d-way detail spindle gouge (1/2") on the way and was thinking about trying a 25° bevel when it suddenly occurred to me that I shouldn't just trow arbitrary angles at the work and ask some folks that know better. I've watched and read a ton but there's so much that's either left vague or that contradicts the last thing I read. Thanks for the guidance.

[Richard Coers]

I can't see how a bevel angle makes a difference from an okay tool to a great tool. I only find the quality of the steel to make that difference. Your arms can adjust to work with any and every angle, so why would that change performance?

[Edward Weber]

There is no single correct answer on bevel angle.
The bevel angle on a spindle/detail gouge partially determines how aggressive the cut is.
With a low, 25 degree bevel angle, you get more of a paring cut. This can be great for softer woods and fine detail work but does dull more quickly.
With a higher, 40 degree bevel angle, you get more of a scoop like an SRG or bowl gouge. This can be good for harder woods, making the edge last longer but does not provide a fine enough point for some detail work.
this is one of my detail gouges, ground between 35-40
Spindle gouge.jpg

[Bill Howatt]

I consider this a good place to start and then if you think you need something better, try it. Sharpening always seems to turn into a "personal choice" thing very quickly.

https://thompsonlathetools.com/sharpening/

[John Kananis]

I can't see how a bevel angle makes a difference from an okay tool to a great tool. I only find the quality of the steel to make that difference. Your arms can adjust to work with any and every angle, so why would that change performance?

Richard, I'm surprised to hear this - are certain angles not easier to work with under any particular circumstances? Thanks for chiming in.

There is no single correct answer on bevel angle.
The bevel angle on a spindle/detail gouge partially determines how aggressive the cut is.
With a low, 25 degree bevel angle, you get more of a paring cut. This can be great for softer woods and fine detail work but does dull more quickly.
With a higher, 40 degree bevel angle, you get more of a scoop like an SRG or bowl gouge. This can be good for harder woods, making the edge last longer but does not provide a fine enough point for some detail work.
this is one of my detail gouges, ground between 35-40
Spindle gouge.jpg

Edward, than you - this actually helps me grasp things a bit better. I notice that in your picture, you don't grind off the heel of the tool?...I thought I was supposed to.

I consider this a good place to start and then if you think you need something better, try it. Sharpening always seems to turn into a "personal choice" thing very quickly.

https://thompsonlathetools.com/sharpening/

Bill, thanks for the link. I use a Wolverine platform but I've move onto sharpening with just the platform. I also have the turner's jig for my tormek, which I don't use any more either. The grinder is located 1 pace from my lathe and I like touching up in 5 seconds and getting back to work. Regardless, moral of the story is I can handle creating the profiles by hand, I'm just often unsure of which profile to use.

[Richard Coers]

I don't know John, after 39 years of turning I've never stopped turning, ground on a different bevel angle, and then declared that it was now a better tool. Could be just me, but all that 40/40 talk and one bevel angle over another from touring turners has always baffled me since curls fly off the wood no matter what the angle is.

[Thomas Wilson80]

I don't know John, after 39 years of turning I've never stopped turning, ground on a different bevel angle, and then declared that it was now a better tool. Could be just me, but all that 40/40 talk and one bevel angle over another from touring turners has always baffled me since curls fly off the wood no matter what the angle is.

I agree with this to some extent (and certainly respect your experience as I’ve only been turning a few years). That being said, I recently started using a detail gouge with a 35 degree bevel compared to my regular spindle gouge with a 45 degree bevel and I am amazed at the difference. Yes, I can get great cuts with both tools, but with the detail gouge and different angle, I can access the wood in totally different ways. It has become my go-to for spindle turning and I now use it 90% of the time for the things I turn.

I appreciate all the experience and opinions on this site and enjoy trying various techniques, finishes, etc. Some things I’ve picked up here have been super helpful and other things that many people seem to love have never caught on for me.

John, I would recommend you try a few typical grinds that multiple turners commonly use (from this forum or qualified YouTube videos from professional turners or sites like CraftSupplies) and let us know what you think.

‘Good luck,
Tom

[Richard Coers]

I agree with this to some extent (and certainly respect your experience as I’ve only been turning a few years). That being said, I recently started using a detail gouge with a 35 degree bevel compared to my regular spindle gouge with a 45 degree bevel and I am amazed at the difference. Yes, I can get great cuts with both tools, but with the detail gouge and different angle, I can access the wood in totally different ways. It has become my go-to for spindle turning and I now use it 90% of the time for the things I turn.

I appreciate all the experience and opinions on this site and enjoy trying various techniques, finishes, etc. Some things I’ve picked up here have been super helpful and other things that many people seem to love have never caught on for me.

John, I would recommend you try a few typical grinds that multiple turners commonly use (from this forum or qualified YouTube videos from professional turners or sites like CraftSupplies) and let us know what you think.

‘Good luck,
Tom

You can't compare a detail and spindle gouge based solely on the bevel angle. The flutes are different as well as the amount of material below the flute. Two different tools and an apples and oranges comparison.

[John Kananis]

I couldn't possibly answer the question as I don't even have 39 months as a turner. My lack of knowledge and experience is what brings me here to ask questions. I've not heard this from anyone else (that angle doesn't matter) yet but I have very little access to experienced turners so thanks for sharing.

I don't know John, after 39 years of turning I've never stopped turning, ground on a different bevel angle, and then declared that it was now a better tool. Could be just me, but all that 40/40 talk and one bevel angle over another from touring turners has always baffled me since curls fly off the wood no matter what the angle is.

[Richard Coers]

I couldn't possibly answer the question as I don't even have 39 months as a turner. My lack of knowledge and experience is what brings me here to ask questions. I've not heard this from anyone else (that angle doesn't matter) yet but I have very little access to experienced turners so thanks for sharing.

If you base all your decisions on the advice of internet hobbiest, then you would expect the bevel to be critical. But ask a grizzly old veteran, and you will understand my advice. Rudy Osolnik said he put his kids through college making candle sticks and only had around 3 gouges in his shop. He sure didn't care if the bevel angle was 36 degrees or 42 degrees. Internet folks will argue about something being .005" out of flat. Same comparison.

[Edward Weber]

If you base all your decisions on the advice of internet hobbiest, then you would expect the bevel to be critical. But ask a grizzly old veteran, and you will understand my advice. Rudy Osolnik said he put his kids through college making candle sticks and only had around 3 gouges in his shop. He sure didn't care if the bevel angle was 36 degrees or 42 degrees. Internet folks will argue about something being .005" out of flat. Same comparison.

The OP is trying to learn.
I get your point but everyone has to learn in their own way at their own pace.
Also, Rude Osolnik is the name you're looking for.

[Dave Fritz]

The OP is trying to learn.
I get your point but everyone has to learn in their own way at their own pace.
Also, Rude Osolnik is the name you're looking for.

That's the point I was trying to make. Some turners are novices and some are extra skilled and some of us are plugging along. People have to start somewhere. There are a lot of variables in turning.

[Richard Coers]

The OP is trying to learn.
I get your point but everyone has to learn in their own way at their own pace.
Also, Rude Osolnik is the name you're looking for.

Auto correct changed the given name, sorry I didn't catch that. It didn't try to change the surname anyway. I disagree that everyone HAS to learn in their own way and their own pace based on my experience. I got my first lathe based solely on a sale price ad in Fine Woodworking in 1985. Tools and some add looking expansion jaw chuck included. (4 jaw scroll chucks for woodworking hadn't been invented yet) I had so much trouble turning in my shop, I just parked the machine in the corner. Books were the only way to turn then. Years latter I went to a regional symposium in St. Louis. It was like an epiphany. Turning consumed my hobby world after that. Then videos came out and I watched all kinds of Beta video tapes. All that fine instruction changed me from a parked lathe to being an active turner who even had a solo gallery show. If you don't like my approach, that's fine. My style of typing or something I can't identify, seems to upset people. I'm just trying to share facts, I'm not trying to say I'm superior to anyone. But darn it, I thought sharing all my decades of experience would help others. But age and experience must not count for much these days since I get so much negativity to what I type. I can only assume that is why a very high percentage of professional woodturners don't help for free on forums. They must also get people who want to disagree with their comments and decided not to waste their time. I might as well join that group instead.

[Edward Weber]

Auto correct changed the given name, sorry I didn't catch that. It didn't try to change the surname anyway. I disagree that everyone HAS to learn in their own way and their own pace based on my experience. I got my first lathe based solely on a sale price ad in Fine Woodworking in 1985. Tools and some add looking expansion jaw chuck included. (4 jaw scroll chucks for woodworking hadn't been invented yet) I had so much trouble turning in my shop, I just parked the machine in the corner. Books were the only way to turn then. Years latter I went to a regional symposium in St. Louis. It was like an epiphany. Turning consumed my hobby world after that. Then videos came out and I watched all kinds of Beta video tapes. All that fine instruction changed me from a parked lathe to being an active turner who even had a solo gallery show. If you don't like my approach, that's fine. My style of typing or something I can't identify, seems to upset people. I'm just trying to share facts, I'm not trying to say I'm superior to anyone. But darn it, I thought sharing all my decades of experience would help others. But age and experience must not count for much these days since I get so much negativity to what I type. I can only assume that is why a very high percentage of professional woodturners don't help for free on forums. They must also get people who want to disagree with their comments and decided not to waste their time. I might as well join that group instead.

No one is trying to take anything away from you or disregard your approach. The one point you seem to miss ia that EVERYONE learns differently. Sharing your years of experience at turning is all great but the "my way or the highway" tone that is contained in some posts, tends to put people off. I should know, I've been an admin/moderator on a turning site for over a dozen years.
You benefited from a class where the instructor yelled accross the room. Others learn from different methods. For some it's one on one, some it's videos and others are self taught to the extent they can be. It can also be difficult to convey certain things through text alone and at times the original meaning can get lost or skewed.

It's one thing to try and save the OP from all the nonsense out there but you risk losing good content when you just dismiss everything you don't agree with.
Please keep in mind that there others that have good information to provide to the OP that may not align with your own.

[John Kananis]

So I just found a clip by Cindy Drozda that help a tremendous amount. Its the sweep angle that I should be changing, not the grind angle. Thanks everyone.