Professionals given no credit on forums..

[jack duren]

What's in a name, show me your work.

I used my work to land me the furniture job..

[Warren Lake]

master is an abused word like Bespoke.

One old guy I knew was the best by far from early training to his history of what he ran for others then his own. When I said once you went from second class cabinetmaker who could not speak English to running the shop in 2 years cause you were so good? He said no cause they saw I could make money for them. He was guy with the grade three education that the lawyes brought the contracts to review and make changes words here and there that made all the difference. He never ever referred to himself or even said he was good. He did tell me he finished his apprenticeship one year early.

I have less of an issue with the word Master than Bespoke because bespoke is salesman crap if used here to elevate. Bottom line is the work and what it is.

Clothes and words dont make the man yet if you use the word Master to Refer to Larry Haun or Essential Craftsman, id say it fits both of them well.

[Patty Hann]

I first came across "bespoke" when I was a a UK website.
From my sporadic exposure to it there I determined that it simply meant "custom-made".
I.e., that is what the Brits say for custom work. I''d never seen the phrase "Custom-made" used by a Brit.
Not saying they don't, just that I've never come across it.

(It's like "skip-bin" for dumpster. They don't say dumpster, they don't even say "skip-bin"; they just call it a skip.)

[jack duren]

From what I’m reading, some of you understand why I’m discussing it and the others have no clue.

cabinet, commercial cabinets and furniture. A carpenter, roofer, sheet rocker are not in that trade.

[mike stenson]

I'd just let it go. Does it really matter?

In the end, what you produce is what creates the respect you garner.

[Zachary Hoyt]

My understanding is that etymologically a professional is someone who does something for money, and an amateur is somebody who does it for love. Professional is one of those words like premium or luthier that means anything or nothing in modern usage.

[mike stenson]

Doesn't a luthier make stringed instruments?

[jack duren]

Your either hired as a helper or hired for your skill.

[Warren Lake]

To me the word bespoke belongs where it lives. You use it here and it doesnt fit. I get it and why they use it. a top kitchen place here uses it and I do love the style of their work but its just fashioned around the British cabinet shops or same style a number of them do.

I know one shop comes to mind and work at a friends on a vanity that is just plain pathetic yet you read their site and they talk up a storm. My view of them is they only pollute the trade.

[jack duren]

We got a shop here in Odessa, Missouri called Craftsman Cabinetry Company. I talked to the guy about a part time job. He wanted me to go around and repair his cabinets that customers were complaining about. I went at the job site . It was awful. I told the guy the problem wasn’t the installation, but in the shop. He hired thae same guy that work at a shop I worked at that they fired him because he did crappy work and now works for Craftsman cabinetry. They need to change the name to Crappy Cabinet Company…

I wouldn’t work for the guy

[Zachary Hoyt]

Doesn't a luthier make stringed instruments?

Some would say what you said, and I think that is the original meaning. Some will say a luthier is only someone with vast experience who will charge you $100 an hour just to look at your violin and tell you it's not worth fixing, and some will say they are a luthier if they change strings at Guitar Center. I make instruments, but do not call myself a luthier.

[mike stenson]

Some would say what you said, and I think that is the original meaning. Some will say a luthier is only someone with vast experience who will charge you $100 an hour just to look at your violin and tell you it's not worth fixing, and some will say they are a luthier if they change strings at Guitar Center. I make instruments, but do not call myself a luthier.

So the problem is that people are illiterate

Seriously, there's been a long process of the over-all reading level diminishing. It's noticeable reading newspapers (which cater to the mean levels) and more so online. Where people have no clue how to use what should be third grade words.

[jack duren]

I’m illiterate. I didn’t spend a lot of time online typing, I spent m y time in the shop running around the people who were…

[Alex Zeller]

Decades ago I was in a trade where you had traidemen and apprentences. It took years to move up. When we brought in someone new we always taught them that being a professional was more than doing good work. It started with how you look. If you dressed like a slob then you turn customers off. If every other word out of your mouth was a swear then, again, you turned people off. When driving a company truck to or from a job you drove like a professional. The condition of the truck also mattered. It didn't need to be a brand new top of the model line truck (lots of people don't want to feel like they are making your truck payments as well as paying you) but it shouldn't look like it's one step from retiring to the junk yard. All of this was before any actual work was done.

My point is what you think of as a professional may not be what someone else thinks. You may feel nothing matters but the quality of the work while others look at the whole package. Maybe today standards have dropped and professional doesn't mean what it once did. IDK. As for forums, what matters is how well you can pass on your knowledge. Did I tell you I've been to the moon 3 times in the last 10 years? There's always that guy who has done or seen it all. You could be the best cabinet maker out there yet unless others have seen your work you are no different than anyone else. When you answer questions and prove you do know what you are talking about then you will gain respect. Personally I haven't done a lot of woodworking in my life and my knowledge is far inferior to a large number of members here. I try to give my honest opinion but would never call myself a professional woodworker.

I'm lucky to have a neighbor who is (I've seen lots of his work and I haven't seen anyone do anything better). He's often being paid to travel all across the country (and occasionally to Europe) because of his skills. He's my fall back when I have a question or need a much larger tool than I own.

[Mark Hennebury]

The reason for brand names and corporate logos are for the general public to easily recognize and assume a level of quality, that has been promoted, which they are unable to judge themselves.
Everyone recognizes a Mercedes logo and have been conditioned to assume it's an expensive good quality car.

Without a visual clue they would not be able to judge themselves.
If the general public could judge things for themselves, you wouldn't need all of the marketing, people could pick up a product with no name, logo or recognizable design features and evaluate it. Companies spend a fortune advertising/brainwashing the public to want their brand, that appeals to the basic tribal instinct of humans, so we all pick our teams, Ford, Chevy, whatever.
That's why all the would-be wood workers use all of the recognizable terms when advertising, Tradition Craftsmanship, Master craftsman etc. blah blah blah.. It is to make the public believe that the woodworker does good work, because the public cannot judge it themselves.

Some woodworkers a famous, but they aren't famous because they are better than all the rest, the public think they are better because they are famous. The public cannot judge the work, so they attribute quality to popularity.

It doesn't matter how good you are, you simply will not get the respect for you level of expertise, who is going to recognize it, only another woodworker with equal or more expertise.

You will get a thousand time more respect by being well promoted. With promotion your name gets mentioned, that leads to more exposure, and more, and people assume that the more they hear about you the better you are, eventually you can join the Gods of woodworking James, George and Sam.

I England they have Royal Warrants which states that you goods are supplied to the royal family, there inferring that they are of the highest quality. You get a signed document to display at your premises. You have to apply and get approved, so there is a lot of prestige attached to owning one.

"Royal warrants of appointment have been issued since the 15th century to those who supply goods or services to a royal court or certain royal personages.^[1] The warrant enables the supplier to advertise the fact that they supply to the royal family, thereby lending prestige to the brand and/or supplier. In the United Kingdom, grants are currently made by the two most senior members of the British royal family to companies or tradespeople who supply goods and services to individuals in the family."

"A royal warrant sent a strong public signal that the holder supplied goods of a quality acceptable for use in the royal household, and by inference, inspired the confidence of the general public. At a time when product quality was a public issue, a royal warrant imbued suppliers with an independent sign of value."

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