Professionals given no credit on forums..

[Mel Fulks]

I can accept something like “ I’ve been in this business a long time and have a good reputation, and would be glad to give you names of
people who like my work “. Much better than “ I’m the great Wizard of Oz , pay no attention to that man behind the curtain”.

[Mark Hennebury]

The problem as I see it, in terms of woodworking is there is only one yardstick and that is popularity. Advertising, promotion, bluff and bluster gets you well known, and popularity equals expertise, in the minds of those who do not possess the ability to judge for themselves.
In Karate for instance they are awarded different ranks after being judged by their peers.
In sword fighting, Miyamoto Mushashi stands tall as an expert, having the rare accomplishment of dying of old age.

[Doug Garson]

I think an expert is someone prepared to do something they never have done before with a high likelihood of success.

That's kinda the exact opposite of an expert. You can't be an expert in something you've never done before. The Oxford dictionary definition of an expert is " a person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area." What you describe is more a "Jack of all trades" or a quick learner. An expert may have failed multiple times doing something they haven't done before ie they may have learned the hard way (by multiple failures) before becoming an expert.

[Doug Garson]

But yes, anyone can call themselves a professional

Try calling yourself a professional engineer or doctor and you may find yourself in court.

[mike stenson]

Try calling yourself a professional engineer or doctor and you may find yourself in court.

"woodworker" doesn't have a professional definition.

Also, claiming a profession you're not, on a forum, probably isn't going to get you into any legal issue.. unless, you start providing advice...

[Warren Lake]

if you have your papers they will say Cabinetmaker. At one point the Gov changed that to Industrial Woodworker then changed it back to cabinetmaker

Ive rebuilt two roofs and did expert level work on both. I had zero experience. We have forums and you tube and more important I had no time constraints for the most part so I was free to take time no pro could ever take. that made all the difference.

[Mel Fulks]

My understanding is that etymologically a professional is someone who does something for money, and an amateur is somebody who does it for love. Professional is one of those words like premium or luthier that means anything or nothing in modern usage.

there is a difference between the best researched dictionary and and graffiti . The big version of the Oxford English is the “judge”.
There are guys in prison for rape ‘cuz they thought the waitress who brought the beer smiled at him.

[Kevin Jenness]

That's kinda the exact opposite of an expert. You can't be an expert in something you've never done before. The Oxford dictionary definition of an expert is " a person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area." What you describe is more a "Jack of all trades" or a quick learner. An expert may have failed multiple times doing something they haven't done before ie they may have learned the hard way (by multiple failures) before becoming an expert.

Well, maybe I should have said "within a particular field". I worked in a custom woodworking shop with a number of people I consider expert woodworkers and we often were called on to do very challenging projects we hadn't done before. The design studio depended on us to pull off stuff that they dreamed up without any limitations on cost or any idea of how it was to be done. We had enough collective experience and ingenuity to get difficult stuff done without a lot of drama.

[Doug Garson]

Well, maybe I should have said "within a particular field". I worked in a custom woodworking shop with a number of people I consider expert woodworkers and we often were called on to do very challenging projects we hadn't done before. The design studio depended on us to pull off stuff that they dreamed up without any limitations on cost or any idea of how it was to be done. We had enough collective experience and ingenuity to get difficult stuff done without a lot of drama.

OK, I get your point, not sure of the best word to describe the guys you are referring to, but by your description in the quote, expert woodworker is pretty good, they could also be described as a craftsman or as innovative, or great problem solvers also. I was thinking you meant someone who could do something in a new unrelated field.

[Jerry Thompson]

A professional is anyone from out of town with a video presentation.

[Mark Hennebury]

The Professionals 2024

The modern Carpenter.

Screenshot 2024-03-20 112231.jpg


The Modern furniture maker.

Here we have Jonny, unlike the hacks that built the stairs, Jonny is the real deal,
with 675,000 followers building a $10,000 table with his high precision CNC gantry router...
Apparently Jonny is not very good at woodwork, as he made a "small mistake" in placement of the the cutouts for the metal brackets, no problem he just cut them again.
Being the consummate professional our Jonny shows us he has the well developed skills to cover up his shit.

Screenshot 2024-03-20 113402.jpg Screenshot 2024-03-20 114208.jpg Screenshot 2024-03-20 114520.jpg

[Edward Weber]

The Professionals 2024

The modern Carpenter.

Screenshot 2024-03-20 112231.jpg


The Modern furniture maker.

Here we have Jonny, unlike the hacks that built the stairs, Jonny is the real deal,
with 675,000 followers building a $10,000 table with his high precision CNC gantry router...
Apparently Jonny is not very good at woodwork, as he made a "small mistake" in placement of the the cutouts for the metal brackets, no problem he just cut them again.
Being the consummate professional our Jonny shows us he has the well developed skills to cover up his shit.

Screenshot 2024-03-20 113402.jpg Screenshot 2024-03-20 114208.jpg Screenshot 2024-03-20 114520.jpg

Great, now that's in my head.
You just can't un-see that

[Mark Hennebury]

It appears that the modern definition of Professional could be a person to whom " No mistake is too big to cover up"

[Edward Weber]

It appears that the modern definition of Professional could be a person to whom " No mistake is too big to cover up"

So long as you film it and call it a "public service" or a "learning opportunity"

And to Jonny (and his followers), you DID NOT build a $10,000 table, what you did was screw up.
It happens sometimes, just don't make the repair worse than the original issue.

I guess it would be too hard to build/buy a set of legs that fit the original placement.
OR
Make the repair look as if it was an intentional part of the build.

I have to go and bang my head against the wall now.

[Warren Lake]

there is a real trade called Cabinetmaking and its being polluted by content creators. Doesnt help the customers or people in the trade, just dilutes and pollutes the whole thing