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Thread: cyclone dust collector in floor joist gaps - too much heat, damage floor?

  1. #1

    cyclone dust collector in floor joist gaps - too much heat, damage floor?

    I bought a Jet JCDC-3 (3HP) Cyclone Dust Collector. It fits fine in my garage. But I have since realized setting up a shop in an uninsulated, unheated garage in the Northeast means I would only be woodworking seven (or less!) months of the year. I am going to move my power-tools into my basement, but the problem is the cyclone dust collector is too tall.


    The JCDC-3's listed height is 88"; I'm measuring mine at 83.5". Either way, it will only fit between my basement floor joist gaps and it will only leave 7" between the motor on top, with the ceiling.


    My main concern is that heat from the motor will cause damage to my wooden sub-floor basement/first floor, both because of the lack of clearance/space and possibly inadequate ventilation (from being in the floor joist gap). My wife would never forgive me if I damage her new wooden floors! I have yet to plug it in, but from what I understand these motors generate a lot of heat.


    I contacted Jet technical support and - of course - they responded there is not enough clearance for the JCDC-3.


    At this point I figure I probably just have to bite-the-bullet and take a loss by selling this brand-new dust collector and buying one that fits in my basement. This post is kind of a last resort to see if anyone has some first-hand experience or words-of-wisdom for my situation.


    I see there are some related posts with lots of suggestions for all kinds of DIY modifications to cyclone dust collectors to fit them into tight spaces. I would rather avoid these types of modifications if at all possible.


    In general, I'm not a big power-tool user, but I went with a large dust-collector to ensure I had enough power & that I could expand in the future.


    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lancaster, Ohio
    Posts
    1,364
    7" air gap is a fair amount, solid floor joist, web truss floor joist?
    Sounds like you will only be running it part time, Jet has to respond like you are running the dust collector all day, all week, all month, all year.
    I recommend doing a few things, install a remote temperature probe against the sub floor above the dust collector, an indoor-outdoor thermometer would work nicely. A piece of foil clad foam, tightly fit to the floor joist, over it fastened to the subfloor, this will reflect the heat away and insulate the floor above. Then if temperature reads 15 deg f above ambient in the area, install a fan to blow air over the dust collector, power the fan from the dust collector so it comes on when the dust collector runs. Highly doubt you will need the fan.
    Dust control and collection is way more important in the basement than the garage. You need to get a room dust filter.

    Here is an inexpensive one with max recording of high low over 24 hrs, so you can look at your convivence and see if it is warming up.
    Amazon.com: Urageuxy Wired Indoor Outdoor Thermometer, Home Room Temperature Monitor with Min/Max Record and 3.3ft Probe Sensor, Fahrenheit Only : Patio, Lawn & Garden
    Room air dust collector
    https://www.amazon.com/WEN-3410-3-Sp...s%2C241&sr=8-6

    A thick filter for the furnace or an electronic is a good idea also
    Honeywell F300E1019 Electronic Air Cleaner, 16" x 25" with Performance Enhancing Post-Filter,Gray: Air Purifiers: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement
    Filtrete 20x25x4 Air Filter, MPR 1000, MERV 11, Allergen Defense 12-Month Deep Pleated 4-Inch Air Filters, 4 Filters - Amazon.com

    Last but not least you need to get a good shop vac/dust deputy or a dust extractor, hook it up to any small sander and use it every time

    There is a air quality meter approx $50 that have been recommended on here, some one will link it for you
    Don't sell your cyclone it is a very good first step towards woodworking safely for you and your family
    Good luck
    Ron
    keep the conversation going and don't rush blindly into this.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Location
    Tracy, CA
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    647
    I have only 3" of space between the top of the motor and the ceiling on my big 5HP cyclone and have never had a problem with this:
    IMG_0064.jpg


    On any motor that I have worked with, there is a fan at the end of the motor. The fan will suck air in from the top and blow it over the sides of the motor for cooling. So, in my picture, it pulls in air from that 3" space and blows the air DOWN the side of the motor. I would run your dust collector and check to make sure it has the same behavior. If it does, then I would say you are fine because it would never "heat" the ceiling since it is blowing air downwards. A gap of 7" is more than enough for this purpose. I'm really not sure why Jet is disagreeing. I suspect it's a knee-jerk reaction because the support person really doesn't understand thermal dynamics.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,842
    I ran the big Oneida cyclone at my old shop with the motor between the joists from about 2004 or so through the first six months of 2021. Zero issues. And that was in a closed, sound deadened closet with a 60 gallon compressor sharing the space with only the baffled vent back into the shop to exhaust the warmer air.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
    I ran a 3hp Oneida in a similar situation for years with no issues for the floor above. Wood plank subfloor with hardwood on top. It would take a lot of heat to damage the subfloor in my opinion. I have staple up radiant in my house and run ~115 water through the pipes. I can't speak to the headroom requirement on the Jet unit but 7" does sound like a lot of space. I believe you only need 1-2" of clearance for the motors on the Oneida.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
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    Tracy, CA
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    647
    Quote Originally Posted by Denis Rezendes View Post
    I ran a 3hp Oneida in a similar situation for years with no issues for the floor above. Wood plank subfloor with hardwood on top. It would take a lot of heat to damage the subfloor in my opinion. I have staple up radiant in my house and run ~115 water through the pipes. I can't speak to the headroom requirement on the Jet unit but 7" does sound like a lot of space. I believe you only need 1-2" of clearance for the motors on the Oneida.
    I think 1" is too small because you will actually be restricting airflow at that point. I think 2" is possibly okay.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NE OH
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    2,626
    I have my V3000 installed the way you describe, with the motor poking up into the between joist space, and have had no issues. If you want the belt and suspenders approach, glue a piece of 1" foil faced rigid foam to the underside of the subfloor above the motor and that will guarantee the floor won't get even warm. My setup is similar to Jim's description: the whole thing is in an insulated closed closed. After running for hours it's warmer in there than the surrounding shop, but not hot by any means.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
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    9,975
    Note that Aaron's climate probably runs 20-30 degrees warmer in summer then the OP. Datsun Z cars had problems with overheating carburetors boiling gasoline. The added a blower fan. The picture is the best I could find. It is not a turbo. You could add a few computer case fans on a thermostat blowing cooler air from the side into the cooling fan intake region. I would say not needed until it is over 100 degrees or so.
    Another choice is suspend a shiny aluminum cookie sheet one inch below the floor. Fan force air through the area on top of the cookie sheet.
    Bill D
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 02-20-2024 at 7:13 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Modesto, CA, USA
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    Do a search about how people add more cooling to motor they will run slower with vfd. Slower to the point of the onboard fan not moving enough air to cool adequately.
    You could remove the motor cooling fan completely and use a ducted fan to blow cool air over the motor. Another choice is to remove the dust fan and motor and mount it on the wall or floor. Then duct it to the top of the cyclone.

    I just realized your mount will really only be adding heat when the motor is not running. It is already sucking in cooler air when it is running. So a simple reflective shield or insulation is easiest. Or a cooling fan on a time that runs a few minutes on shutdown until motor internals cool down.
    BilLD
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 02-20-2024 at 7:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    1.5 hrs north of San Francisco, CA
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    Other possibilities:
    Shorter dust collection bin/barrel
    Put DC in small outside attached shed space (my plan to gain space & reduce noise)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
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    Tracy, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Cannon View Post
    Other possibilities:
    • Shorter dust collection bin/barrel
    • Put DC in small outside attached shed space (my plan to gain space & reduce noise)
    The JCDC-3 has a frame that would need to be modified if you wanted to lower the height with a shorter barrel. There's also the small plastic bag under the exhaust filter that you would have to deal with.

    If you put this dust collector outside, you need to have some sort of opening in the basement to allow return air to come back in. Otherwise, the dust collector won't move any air because it would essentially "be sucking vacuum".

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
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    11,272
    Hi David, my Oneida cyclone has been in the same installation condition for 23 years.

    The motor will be taking air in the top end of the motor near the floor and blowing it downwards over the motor, you wont have an issue.

    Im also an Electrical Technologist, this is a normal operating condition for motors, nothing to worry about.

    Regards, Rod

    P.S. Every watt that goes into your motor is converted to heat, either from friction, windage, copper and core losses in the motor, as well as all the power delivered by the fan compressing the air and duct and cyclone losses.

    You will notice an increase in shop temperature

  13. #13
    Wow, such great information - thanks so much everyone!


    These posts changed my mind from I'm going to have to sell this/being depressed every time I walked into my garage, to, I need to get some help to move this into my basement!


    Thanks so much for posting your knowledge & real-world experiences of similar situations. Nowhere else could I find such valuable information!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Western PA
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    1,245
    Add me to the pile of people with the motor between joists. I can measure the bottom of the subfloor to the top of the motor, but i suspect it is only 2-3". I have limited ceiling height in my basement. Like others, that was about 8-9 years ago and i havent experienced any issues yet.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    665
    My dust collector was way too tall for my shop so I cut a hole in the loop and dug down a couple feet and poured a new floor. Was sure to add enough room to slide the barrel out from under the collector.
    Sparky Paessler

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