WI-FI In Detached Garage

[Jim Becker]

There are combined ONTs and routers that some providers use. (my provider, Verizon) has separate ONTs and gateway/routers. And yes, you can connect a remote access point to one of the four yellow Ethernet ports on your device as shown in the photo. You don't need a "router"...just a wireless access point. Mesh systems are simpler as it's "one network" natively, but an inexpensive access point in your gara-shop will provide the same utility, even if you need to setup a different wireless network name. (some can do the same network as your primary without issue and some don't like that)

BTW, the reason I said you don't have a "modem" with your fiber service is that there's no need to convert from analog to digital with fiber...it's digital all the way and almost without exception and optical network terminal is generally providing just a change from fiber to copper Ethernet with a network management interface that allows the carrier to manage your service up to your ONT which is the "demark" for your service. ONT out is the carrier's business and responsibility; ONT in to your router and beyond is "your" business and responsibility. Some fiber providers do provide for helping manage the internal network, but many subscribers don't like that for privacy reasons.

[mike stenson]

I'm not sure that there's really anything analog left to DOCSIS. But it's admittedly been some time.

[Jim Becker]

I'm not sure that there's really anything analog left to DOCSIS. But it's admittedly been some time.

V4 supposedly ups the anti and Comcast is beginning to roll it out. But it's still coax with a lot of electrical stuff between the "central office" and the subscriber. Fiber is mostly generations of PON (passive optic network) with none of the electrical stuff. It's cleaner and more reliable in that respect. And it naturally is supportive of symmetrical speeds, too. While a lot of folks mostly "consume" and use download, with increased use of video and online backup as well as work-from-home, symmetrical wins every time. I have symmetrical gigabit service for under $90 a month. In some places, it costs less.

[Bill Howatt]

Well, at least I'm learning a bunch of new acronym's! I had to look up "ONT"

I think this would be my ONT fiber interface?
Attachment 515210
The gray cat-5 cable goes to my ArrisNVG589B modem/router,
https://www.att.com/media/att/2013/s...ice_nvg589.pdf or as AT&T calls it a gateway.

The connections are pretty simple,
Attachment 515211
It looks like all I would have to do is attach an ethernet cable to one of the yellow connections, run it out to the garage & connect it to the green (WAN) connection of the second router?

But it also sounds like it could be a little tricky to get the two routers to link together, being that I'm new to all this WI-FI stuff & computers in general.

It would be nice if your heater had a wired ethernet port (you could just plug the cable into it) but you said WiFi.
I would set up an Access Point with the second router. This can be done using an old router that doesn't have an Access Point mode or it may have it. If you need to buy a new one, ensure it has an Access Point mode.
Here is a link (there are lots of them) to setup an Access Point: https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/h...-access-point/
You do not want to use the WAN connector, your first router or modem is handling that part of the connection. Just plug the new cable into a regular network port on both routers.
You want to disable the DHCP function of the second router (DHCP gives devices on your home network IP addresses). Having 2 doing the same thing would cause problems so just let the original router continue to handle it.
You will use the same network identifier for WiFi on the second router as is used on the original router.

[Jim Becker]

Bill, there is no need for a second router...for routing. In fact, if the routing isn't turned off, it complicates things on the network. Most folks are best served with a single gateway router on "their side" of the carrier demarcation ("modem", ONT, etc) with everything else they add just being additional wireless support. I do agree that an unused router that has WiFi can be used as another access point, however, although often times that means older WiFi standards with lower performance and potentially, lower security.

[Bill Howatt]

The intent of the second router being setup as an AP is so it provides a WiFi signal close to the controlled device, the heater. With the WAN port not being used means no gateway and the DHCP turned off the second router is really just acting like a switch. Anything to do with internet access is still under the control of the first modem/router If his WiFi was good from the original router the second WiFi signal wouldn't be needed, same as if the heater had a wired internet port.

[Jim Becker]

I understand that, Bill. I made my living as a network engineer. What I'm saying is that you do not want the "router" function to be enabled for this remote access point if you use an old "router" as an AP for just it's WiFi capability. It should have the routing function disabled...be in "bridge mode". While not using the WAN port might keep a double NAT from occurring, the "best practice" is to disable routing in the software to insure it doesn't mess things up.

[Michael Burnside]

The OP said they weren't Wi-Fi savvy. I think when we're talking about setting up a second router into bride mode (if possible), disabling DHCP, discussing the follies of double NAT and still failing to discuss the ability to link the secondary Wi-Fi into the same SSID, which IMHO if you don't it's hacky as all get out...we've gone way, way too far LOL.

[mike stenson]

V4 supposedly ups the anti and Comcast is beginning to roll it out. But it's still coax with a lot of electrical stuff between the "central office" and the subscriber. Fiber is mostly generations of PON (passive optic network) with none of the electrical stuff. It's cleaner and more reliable in that respect. And it naturally is supportive of symmetrical speeds, too. While a lot of folks mostly "consume" and use download, with increased use of video and online backup as well as work-from-home, symmetrical wins every time. I have symmetrical gigabit service for under $90 a month. In some places, it costs less.

Cool, everything I work with these days (other than basic wired ethernet, and home stuff) is Fibre channel, FICON, maybe FCoE. At least from the networking side.

[Doug Walls]

The OP said they weren't Wi-Fi savvy. I think when we're talking about setting up a second router into bride mode (if possible), disabling DHCP, discussing the follies of double NAT and still failing to discuss the ability to link the secondary Wi-Fi into the same SSID

Yeah, it's kind of overwhelming.

we've gone way, way too far LOL.

Probably so, but I do appreciate all the replies!
At least I have several options to think about, and some others to rule out because they're way beyond my limited abilities.

You might want to consider calling AT&T and ask them. I bet they have a solution that they're willing to charge you a monthly fee for.

That's sounding more like a possible solution
My current set-up is several years old & using WI-FI #4, Which I understand is pretty much outdated now.
I can update to a new WI-FI #6 with an integrated mech-system for about $45 more per month. The part that gets to me is their $20 a month rental fee. ($10 for the gateway & $10 for the mech units)

[Bill Howatt]

I understand that, Bill. I made my living as a network engineer. What I'm saying is that you do not want the "router" function to be enabled for this remote access point if you use an old "router" as an AP for just it's WiFi capability. It should have the routing function disabled...be in "bridge mode". While not using the WAN port might keep a double NAT from occurring, the "best practice" is to disable routing in the software to insure it doesn't mess things up.

I'll defer to your expertise, Jim, but I don't really think a typical home router is comparable to real router that does things with comprehensive routing tables, it is more of a switch without the WAN stuff but your advice is good. Easy way to avoid this is to just get a router that can be easily configured as an Access Point.

[Jim Becker]

The OP said they weren't Wi-Fi savvy. I think when we're talking about setting up a second router into bride mode (if possible), disabling DHCP, discussing the follies of double NAT and still failing to discuss the ability to link the secondary Wi-Fi into the same SSID, which IMHO if you don't it's hacky as all get out...we've gone way, way too far LOL.

I'll defer to your expertise, Jim, but I don't really think a typical home router is comparable to real router that does things with comprehensive routing tables, it is more of a switch without the WAN stuff but your advice is good. Easy way to avoid this is to just get a router that can be easily configured as an Access Point.

This is one reason why I recommend a mesh system for these situations. It's easier to setup and provides a single WiFi network. While I appreciate that folks like to reuse old gear, sometimes it takes a bit of effort to set things up so things are easy to use.

[Doug Walls]

This is one reason why I recommend a mesh system for these situations. It's easier to setup and provides a single WiFi network.

Just for the heck of it, here's another possible option!
As I mentioned about not really being WI-FI savvy, I'm not sure if it would work?

I've been thinking of getting a new home computer!
If I'm running an Ethernet cable out to the garage anyways, Could I just use my old computer to pick-up the Wi-Fi in the garage?

I'm not sure how much I would use a computer out in the garage, but it could probably come in handy at times!

My computer is an older Dell Optiplex 7020 https://i.dell.com/sites/csdocuments...heet-FINAL.pdf running Windows 10 Pro (64-bit) 16 GB Memory and a 1-TB partitioned SSD hard drive with a Nvidia GeForce GT-710 graphics card!
Don't ask me how it all works
I had a computer shop set it up for me.

I don't think there's any WI-FI built into it since it was set-up to use the Ethernet connection, but I'm pretty sure WI-FI can be added!

[Jim Becker]

That's not really a solution, Doug, since my understanding is that you need wireless for a device out there that only supports wireless. Putting the computer out there is no issue and wired is good. But you'd still need at least an inexpensive wireless Access Point (and a small Ethernet switch if the AP doesn't have at least two Ethernet ports) to make that wireless only device connect to the network. The PC isn't going to be an access point. As an aside, the mesh node in my shop, which is hard wired back to the house and the primary node (they are all the same physically, but one is given the "job" of being primary), has two Ethernet ports. One is used for the backhaul to the house and the other provides a wired Ethernet connection to the Windows computer that is used to run my CNC machine. That computer doesn't support wireless. For everything else, I have full WiFi available in the shop...for phones, laptops, etc.

[Doug Walls]

That's not really a solution, Doug, since my understanding is that you need wireless for a device out there that only supports wireless.

Yeah, the heater needs a 2.4GHz WI-FI connection & the app it runs on needs an internet connection.

The PC isn't going to be an access point.

Thanks, like I said I'm not too familiar with all this WI-FI stuff including smartphones & computers.