Stanley 5 refurbish

[Paul McCuish]

My Stanley 5 is good shape, except that the sole is a wee bit bowed. It is flat from the back to the mouth, but is bowed up from mouth to the front. When I press down on the knob, the back end of the sole lifts about .1mm. Should I sand it down to perfectly flat? Thank you for your help. Great forum!

[steven c newman]

Put it to work..

[Jim Koepke]

My Stanley 5 is good shape, except that the sole is a wee bit bowed. It is flat from the back to the mouth, but is bowed up from mouth to the front. When I press down on the knob, the back end of the sole lifts about .1mm. Should I sand it down to perfectly flat? Thank you for your help. Great forum!

Hi Paul, .1mm out of flat isn't a whole lot of a problem for a #5. If you have the skill, set-up and time, I'd say go for making it flat. I use a 4' long hunk of granite with adhesive backed abrasive paper from a roll when a plane needs work flattening its sole.

Be careful, it is very easy to make it worse. Check the sole with a straight edge every few passes on the paper. Soft cast iron wears away quickly. My tendency is to use 180 grit or finer. Some folks like to start with a coarser grit.

A truly flat sole will provide better control during your planing work.

jtk

[Tom Trees]

Best leave it alone, I un-intentionally made a few planes have that convex profile,
as I thought this was a mindless process, which it isn't.
Flat means touching on the perimeter all around, at any level tolerance,
That means no contact of those areas with abrasive allowed, so a larger lapping surface than the plane is, is of no use,
as you can't dictate where you want material to be removed from, without also removing the perimeter, i.e counterproductive.

Some seemingly don't believe this, i.e that abrasion favours the perimeters of the work,
though seemingly go quiet when you mention to colour in a convex sole, i.e a banana,
and try keeping the ink on the perimeter, after one or two wipes.
They seemingly believe this will happen only to a concave surface, as I guess they might have lapped other things before and succeeded,
but perhaps forgot about the flap disc they used previously on an angle grinder to hollow out the centre.
(obviously, that aggressive of a tool, certainly not recommended for a hand plane)


The very thought in which lapping always removes the high areas first, is murder for something precision.
Something like the below scenario, might not be uncommon.
Oh no, I've spotted some corrosion on me hand plane, better give it a clean with my scary sharp setup...
Wait a second, why is the blue coming off the toe and heel of my (insert premium tool company) plane?
I guess it must be outta whack!
Keep lapping till all the blue is gone they say.

That should be fair warning, plenty of ways to do spot work until flat, and then your large lap for literally a rub or two,
any more than that, and you'd be going back to square one.

Worth noting, is the sole meaty enough to even start with, it might not be it's first rodeo,
and have you a jack plane/intend to do much surfacing by hand.
Also worth saying, some like a bit of convexity, like David W reckons.
That's up to you.

All the best
Tom

[Eric Brown]

I'm sort of in agreement with Steven. Try it on a board first and see how it works. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm sort of in agreement with Steven. Try it on a board first and see how it works. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

That is always the best way to start.

Don't try fixing it if it isn't a problem.

Some problems from my experience:

If the sole is overly convex, it can start a cut with pressure on the front of the plane but jump out of the cut when the pressure moves to the back of the plane.

If the sole is concave, the blade may have to be adjusted out to get any cut at all and then the plane will dig in for a very thick cut.

A flat sole with a sharp blade should be adjustable from a thin shaving by just pushing on the tote with no downward pressure on the plane body all the way to as thick a shaving as the wood, the strength of the user and the opening of the plane's mouth allows.

jtk

[Paul McCuish]

Thanks for this Jim. Good advice.

The results I was getting with this plane wasn’t really a problem, but I wanted to see if I could improve the results I was getting with it. The sole is a bit flatter now, but not perfect, and I prettied up the brass and the screw heads, did a proper job sharpening it, and it does cut better now. Probably the sharpening made more of a difference than the tedious work on the sole. The shiny screw heads didn’t make a noticeable difference, but I like them like that. Yes, I’m obviously a retired guy.

[David Carroll]

The shiny screw heads didn’t make a noticeable difference, but I like them like that. Yes, I’m obviously a retired guy.

Then it was worth doing! I have favorite tools that probably don't perform any better (and maybe not as good) as some newer LN tools, yet I reach for them in preference to the "better" tool because I have some connection.

But as far as flattening the sole goes, Only once in my life have I ever had an iron plane with a sole so badly cast (twisted) that a proper set up didn't make it cut well.

In my opinion, the whole flatness thing is entirely overblown. I always shake my head when folks take a brand new set of chisels and mirror polish the entire back. Sometimes on a buffing wheel! The polishing is pretty much taken care of at the working end of the tool as you remove the wire edge, then strop.

For planes that are really bad, bulged or twisted, draw-filing or scraping is better to knock down a bulge or high corner just where it needs it. A good light source, a good straight edge and some time are all that is needed. Along with the mill file or scraper.

The only bench planes (again in my opinion) that need really flat soles are smooth planes and long jointers. Even these don't need to be flat so much as co-planar at the toe, mouth area, and heel. UNLESS you are trying to use the No. 5 as an all purpose plane. Then flatten away.

But if you are intending to use it to rough thickness stock, with a heavily cambered iron and a heavy set, to cut aggressively, then sharpen it up, make sure the frog is where you want it to allow a big chip to pass, and as Steve said, "put it to work."

DC

[steven c newman]

Considering that the No. 5 spent it's entire life being dragged backwards ON the toe...Nope, NOT warped...it IS called wear, though....

Because users at that time were taught to raise up the heel of the plane, and bring the plane back to the start point...the toe was left on the wood....For how many years of use....

Sharpen it up to YOUR standards, and get back to work....

[William Fretwell]

Trying to ‘fix’ things like that is often educational. With most of the down force on the rear knob the front of the plane should float so it should make little difference. Try getting a consistent shaving the whole length of a piece of wood, if you do then leave alone, it’s a Jack plane after all.

[Jim Koepke]

The #5 plane is one of the most common to show up in the second hand market.

Instead of trying to do a lot of work on one that is a little off, it gets turned into a scrub plane or is set up for rough work.

I think the most I've ever paid for a #5 is $35. That was when I was first starting in wood working. Of course prices have gone crazy and back since then.

jtk

[Robert Hazelwood]

If I'm understanding your description, the sole is convex along its length by about .004". That's not bad at all, and much better than being .001" concave. The acid tests for the sole are - can you take a consistent thin shaving off of a known flat board, and - can you plane a known straight edge of a board with full length shavings and keep it straight. The latter depends a lot on technique, but a concave sole will make it essentially impossible (and will also make taking a thin consistent shaving essentially impossible as well). With a slightly convex sole both tests are possible, and for planing a straight edge it can even help you a little to counteract the natural tendency to plane more material off at the ends, versus a perfectly flat sole.