All table saws to be SawStops?

[Warren Lake]

sounds like a poor shop.

Ive said 100 times people need to get some training on a saw.

Its one thing to screw up, its another to not know what you are doing and learn as you go unless you can grow new fingers.

[jack duren]

You can learn all the great tricks not to get hurt, but there is only one way to not get hurt on a table saw Don’t operate one ever or just stay seated on the couch

[Mark Hennebury]

Safety is complex, human nature is probably the biggest issue, and the least addressed. Everyone pushes using safety gear, push-sticks, grippers, blade guards, "the rules" don't get your hands closer to the blade than 4", 6" 8" 24" or whatever, what should be pushed in my opinion is education on wood, cutting tools, machinery, how stuff works and why. you need to understand this stuff so that you know what you are doing.

Maybe I am silly but safety gear can give a false sense of safety and make people who don't know what they are doing get themselves hurt.
Sawstop is a great concept.

Question for you, if saw stop saved a 100 fingers. would the same people using a regular saw have lost 100 also? Or do sawstop users have more accidents because they have a sawstop. I understand to sawstop users the answer doesn't matter, because they can have as many accidents as they want........on the sawstop.......... but it isn't on the rest of their machines. does it breed a dangerous sense of no consequence's?

Do a quick hands-up survey how many people on this forum have had accidents on their jointer,, how many of them had a guard, functional or not on it at the time.
How many have guards on the jointer, how many don't, professional or hobbyist, how many years/ hours use, jointer size. Get some real data.

But if you don’t think it HELPS, you’re being silly. I’ve seen three people trigger the sawstop in a public workshop that would have  led to three amputations on a Unisaw.

If it prevents 9/10 tablesaw amputations, seems worth it in my book. But I love keeping all 10.

[Monte Milanuk]

do sawstop users have more accidents because they have a sawstop?

Interesting question. I follow a Sawstop owner's group on FB, and I swear it seems like every time someone runs their finger into the blade they post a pic saying "Look, see how it saved me!!!". Meanwhile, I'm thinking "WTF were you doing with your fingers that close to the blade in the first place?!?".

The safety feature is great, but it seems like too many use it as a substitute for basic safety / common sense.

[Warren Lake]

lots of dynamics. Take a guy in the trade working an 80 hour week with a deadline only to have a material supplier let them down. thats a distracting reality and more so if there is a performance bond

I can say for sure I know two people that lost fingers on jointers that had the guards on them. Both of them full time people and both of them excellent people, the best of people ive met over the years.

[Edward Weber]

Interesting question. I follow a Sawstop owner's group on FB, and I swear it seems like every time someone runs their finger into the blade they post a pic saying "Look, see how it saved me!!!". Meanwhile, I'm thinking "WTF were you doing with your fingers that close to the blade in the first place?!?".

The safety feature is great, but it seems like too many use it as a substitute for basic safety / common sense.

"do sawstop users have more accidents because they have a sawstop? "
Great question and what I was getting at earlier. I really believe that the false sense of security (invulnerability) is dangerous in itself.
Safety devices can also fail from time to time and typically require periodic maintenance to keep them up and running, so they're ready to activate when needed.

[Monte Milanuk]

Exactly. I think a lot of people (too many) treat it as the first line of defense, instead of the last.

[jack duren]

I think old timers like me use it the same as any other, new woodworkers may get a fault sense and take chances. Maybe, I’m just guessin..

[Edward Weber]

Exactly. I think a lot of people (too many) treat it as the first line of defense, instead of the last.

That's a great way to phrase it

I am also curious about the number of people who were encouraged by others, like their wives, to purchase. Why is this I wonder. Or the number of people who had an accident, then bought a SS.

I do find the demographics interesting.

[Michael Burnside]

I think old timers like me use it the same as any other, new woodworkers may get a fault sense and take chances. Maybe, I’m just guessin..

I don’t think it’s experience more than it is complacency. I for one respect the saw and I never think about the safety device present, I think about what the hell I’m doing. Just because I wear a seatbelt doesn’t mean I drive like a complete imbecile either, but we’ve all witnessed morons there too, plenty of which have drive for a measurable time

[Larry Frank]

I do not know about any other Sawstop users, but I do not think of it as any line of defense. I see that blade whirling and think all I want to do is keep my fingers out of it. I do not think that I can just put my fingers in it and be ok.

[jack duren]

I don’t think it’s experience more than it is complacency. I for one respect the saw and I never think about the safety device present, I think about what the hell I’m doing. Just because I wear a seatbelt doesn’t mean I drive like a complete imbecile either, but we’ve all witnessed morons there too, plenty of which have drive for a measurable time

I’ve already been hurt on the table saw. I’m well aware of what’s going on the saw as well as what’s going around me. I’m not just old, I’m experienced…I got hurt in 1985 on a set of dado blades and I spend the next 35 years keeping my hands out the saw. You want safety , talk to me …

[Mark Hennebury]

It is hard to trust reported data too many variables, depends on who's presenting it and what their motivation is at to what the chose to include and leave out..

For instance I have never used a jointer with the guard on it, and almost never used a push stick or grippers, i am a professional, did it for a living, worked long hours, sometimes around the clock, under pressure of dead lines, often worked through the night alone. Work from both the infeed and out feed ends, I had a 6" delta as my fist jointer, the a 24" German Klein jointer and a 24" combination jointer/ planer, for the past 20 years i have a 20" Wadkin.
never had an accident. Not bragging just stating the facts. I could have an accident tomorrow, and most likely will if I continue ( have some age and medical issues)

Logically you would think that people would flock to me and ask me to teach how to use a jointer. I have a 50 year safety record! under tough conditions, I should be famous.
But you know all i get is abuse any time that i mention it. Stoned to death and called reckless, told that i disregard all safety, and i am an accident waiting to happen, and when , not if, but when I get -injured a lot of people will be happy. They will say, told you so.

They want to believe that my safety has been dumb stupid luck, every second of every day for decades. They dismiss the astronomical odds of that absurd position because it doesn't fit what they believe.
When I point out all the woodworkers that have safety guards and pushsticks and grippers that have had accidents, they say that I am being mean, that these people just made a mistake and it can happen to anyone.
If you examine what caused their accidents it is not difficult to see that they were simply doing stuff that they shouldn't do. The wood didn't slip out of their hands. They put their hands in the wrong place, hold the material incorrectly, drag their fingers over the blades.
first photo Current Wadkin, second photo 24" German jointer planer, third photo delta 6" and German 24" and Balastrini tenoner.

Wadkin Jointer2.jpg090283.jpg 95.jpg

[Patty Hann]

I mentioned that I take WW classes 2 nights a week. One of the guys (about 65) occasionally brings along his brother (age 70 or so) to help him out with some large stock.
Class mate introduced brother and told everyone how his brother is a super experienced, longtime woodworker.

Class shop has 4 Sawstops... one of which is dedicated to Dado blade use.
Situation: all other three SS in use, I am waiting my turn for the saw the classmate and his brother are using.

They make the last cut...offcut is right next to the blade. Brother moves hand into spinning blade. Not next to it (which would still be stupid) but right up to the spinning edge.
At that point in my mind's eye everything happening was moving in slow motion.
I know I tried to shout something like "NO! STOP!" (and no thought even entered my mind that "This is a Saw Stop so he's NOT going to hurt himself much at all")
I know my mouth was agape but the words never came out.

And the guy triggered the brake. I was still speechless, still sporting a major jaw drop.
My next thought was: Well, Sawstops do work.
And then I finally got my voice back, turned to my classmate and said, "Your brother is an idiot."

[mike stenson]

I think old timers like me use it the same as any other, new woodworkers may get a fault sense and take chances. Maybe, I’m just guessin..

Aren't you missing some finger parts?

I've known people with well over 25 years of experience end up missing them suddenly.

This thread is funny at this point.