Traditional breadboards versus domino alternative

[Tony Wilkins]

Putting breadboards on the dining table I’m making. Planning on doing it the traditional way. Looking on YouTube, most of the videos show just putting dominos between the top and the ends. How much difference in there in function is there between the two?

[Lee Schierer]

The purpose of breadboards on the end of a table are to prevent the top from cupping. The problem is the table top is going to expand and contract seasonally while the bread board won't change in length. The table needs to move in relation to the bread board. There are a number of ways to do that. The video in the link below shows several way to accomplish this with discussion on the advantage/disadvantages of each method.
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Breadboard ends

[Derek Kessler]

Traditional breadboard ends are great for stability and resisting warping. Dominos can simplify the process, but the choice depends on your preference.

[Tony Wilkins]

Traditional breadboard ends are great for stability and resisting warping. Dominos can simplify the process, but the choice depends on your preference.

I guess I can see the convenience but am having a hard time seeing anywhere near the strength to resist cupping without the full length tongue and groove.

[Mark Hennebury]

This is a nice system that I got from a book about a Japanese temple door, not an exact copy, but the general idea. Tongue and grooved boards, You could tenon all five boards if you wanted. quarter-sawn white Oak. Small gap between each board, maybe business card thickness.
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[Derek Cohen]

Putting breadboards on the dining table I’m making. Planning on doing it the traditional way. Looking on YouTube, most of the videos show just putting dominos between the top and the ends. How much difference in there in function is there between the two?

Tony, in effect, there should not be any difference as both systems are mortice-and-tenon. The following guideline need to be considered ...

1. The aim is to allow the breadboard to move as the table expands. This must be the case with both fixed- and loose tenons. Typically, the centre is fixed and the ends are allowed to move in wider mortices.

2. The advantage of a drawbore is that the breadboard can be pulled against the table end. This can be done with a loose tenon (domino) as well, but I would first glue the table end and let it dry before creating the drawbore.

3. Can a domino be drawbored? You may need to make your own loose tenons, choosing the grain carefully to avoid run out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Keegan Shields]

Very cool door Mark, thanks for sharing! Do you have any additional pictures?

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony, in effect, there should not be any difference as both systems are mortice-and-tenon. The following guideline need to be considered ...

1. The aim is to allow the breadboard to move as the table expands. This must be the case with both fixed- and loose tenons. Typically, the centre is fixed and the ends are allowed to move in wider mortices.

2. The advantage of a drawbore is that the breadboard can be pulled against the table end. This can be done with a loose tenon (domino) as well, but I would first glue the table end and let it dry before creating the drawbore.

3. Can a domino be drawbored? You may need to make your own loose tenons, choosing the grain carefully to avoid run out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

What about the extra full length lip on the traditional style? It seems that would add something to the anti cupping effect.

[mike stenson]

The exposed haunch? I think that's mostly an aesthetic decision. It's also a whole lot easier if using hand tools.

[Derek Cohen]

What about the extra full length lip on the traditional style? It seems that would add something to the anti cupping effect.

Tony, in my earlier post, I assumed that the tongue would be common to both constructions, that this was obvious. I consider that this is a central feature in maintaining a flat top. In my opinion, using dominos without also creating a tongue reduces the end to a look-a-like without doing much structurally. My preference is for a traditional breadboard with the full length tongue. My apology for any confusion.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rafael Herrera]

I've a theory about this, and I'd like to hear what you think and also feel free to shut me down. When a board is freshly milled and the wood is still wet it can split overnight at the ends unless it is sealed, specially if it is plain sawn. Splits on the sides is not observed. On dry lumber that kind of movement is not as dramatic, but its there and a glue joint can split. The inference I draw from this is that moisture penetrates more readily through the end grain. Hence, exposed end grain is to be avoided unless it is sealed. So, end grain bad, straight grain good. The breadboard is a method to cover end grain and prevent movement failures, not just warping, but having the top split.

From an aesthetic point of view, end grain is pretty ugly, in particular on a table end. Mark Hennebury's post illustrate a breadboard style that conceals all the end grain. I've a question for Mark, does this method prevent the table top from moving? Even a slight change of width would open the mitered joint.

Rafael

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Rafael, The construction is kind of a hybrid, a cross between a slab door and a frame and panel. if you removed the three middle boards, you would be left with a mitered frame. the two stiles are only partially mitered. so if the board is 8" wide you only have 4" or so inches mitered, so now you effectively have only a 4" wide stile, in terms of movement. so you have minimized the amount of movement, then the wood is quarter sawn white Oak to further minimize movement. Half of the width of the stile will theoretically move inside the frame not on the outside, but I don't think you could measure much. The three inside boards are pinned in place with a small gap between the and are free to seasonally move inside the frame. The outside dimension of the frame would not change any more than if you made a regular mortice and tenon frame door out of 2" x 4"quarter sawn white Oak. Quarter-sawn seasonal movement is less than flat-sawn.

I've a theory about this, and I'd like to hear what you think and also feel free to shut me down. When a board is freshly milled and the wood is still wet it can split overnight at the ends unless it is sealed, specially if it is plain sawn. Splits on the sides is not observed. On dry lumber that kind of movement is not as dramatic, but its there and a glue joint can split. The inference I draw from this is that moisture penetrates more readily through the end grain. Hence, exposed end grain is to be avoided unless it is sealed. So, end grain bad, straight grain good. The breadboard is a method to cover end grain and prevent movement failures, not just warping, but having the top split.

From an aesthetic point of view, end grain is pretty ugly, in particular on a table end. Mark Hennebury's post illustrate a breadboard style that conceals all the end grain. I've a question for Mark, does this method prevent the table top from moving? Even a slight change of width would open the mitered joint.

Rafael