Moderator
I have also cut back on my TB-III use; I use TB-I for most projects as they are largely not intended for wet situations. I also recently bought the darker/brown version of TB-II for when I want the glue to be darker for whatever reason. I'll still use TB-III when it's primary property is required if I don't want to use epoxy.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
[OP]
Contributor
I had one obvious failure a few years ago- rails for a redwood gate, temps in the 40s.
Since then, a couple of times where the overall glue up was OK but one section or offcut didn't bond in spite of all the same conditions. This all from a gallon that is a couple of years old now.
Currently, cut some louver doors short and re installing the top rail between the stiles, & one of the joints did not hold at all. This was a medium bottle kept in the work van, not too old, temps low 60s.
I recently learned about stirring but did not think to do that.
I worry about the gate- in use ~3 years now, but I don't think I would be worrying if I had used TBII as I've never had any problem with that & have used it some in outdoor & wet projects.
Contributor
TB-111 is a Belgium airline flight not a glue. Brussles to Cancun. I bet glue would freeze in the cargo hold at those altitudes. Why did we all think he was talking about a glue? He never said tite bond, just TB.
Bill D.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tb111
Bill D Airlines Belgium flight TB111TUI Airlines Belgium flight TB111ttps://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tb111
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tb111 TUI Airlines Belgium flight TB111
TUI Airlines Belgium flight TB111
Member
I had a "failure" recently with TB III. Not sure if failure is the proper way to describe it, but I built a pair of exterior chaise lounge chairs from Cypress and Black Locust in 2019. They sit outside, under cover but definitely get sun, rain/snow exposure. The glue joints on many of the seat slats failed and were pulling apart. I repaired with West Systems Epoxy after cleaning each slat tenon down to raw wood with a chisel, applying epoxy to tenons and clamping for 24 hrs. I should have used Epoxy from the start for such a demand, but live and burn as my mentor used to tell me.
I haven't used TB III really in a few years and find it to be a bit too runny for my tastes. I stick with TB II or West Systems epoxy depending on the application.
Still waters run deep.
Contributor
My experience is titebond 3 isn’t a very good outdoor glue. Joinery and wood species are far more important then the glue. Gorilla polyurethane is what I use for western red cedar, redwood and Douglas fir gates I've made. The bond is very good.
Good Luck
Aj
Contributor
Oh my, I didnt realize there was so much pent up aggression towards TBIII! Other than 1 and 2, what are others using for general use? I tend to avoid epoxies or resin glues like unibond if i can. The less your body is exposed to things like that, the better. PU glues have always been a complete mess to clean up, and i havent purchased a PU glue in years. I recently saw a UK guy clean up PU glue with a spray solvent, and maybe that is enough for me to give it a second shot. Other than very minor 'creep' on bent laminations, TBIII has been a rock solid adhesive for me--indoor and outdoor. And honestly, the creep is something i can live with. Put another way, the creep isnt bad enough for me to turn to a urea or formaldehyde glue. I estimate ive used maybe 10 gallons of TBIII over the last decade, and it is nice to have two adhesives on hand for everything. If i needed a long open time, i used west systems. Everything else gets TBIII, which simplifies life considerably. Im open to a switch, and ill save TBIII for the once a year cutting board where it is one of the only 'food safe' adhesives.
Contributor
This is pretty much my experience, Patrick. TBIII has been my solid go to adhesive for years, and I've had very few issues. I've used it for bent laminations, veneer laminations, and some of my ordinary joinery. The only failures I've had have been directly traceable to not paying attention to temperature. My shop is only heated when I use it, and in the winter, you do want to be careful to get both glue and wood warmed to working temperature, and to keep them there for a good 12 hours after glue up.
I do also use Total Boat and some West System epoxy, for situations where I need a space filling adhesive. I use hide glue for joinery that I think may need to come apart in a forseeable repair situation. But overable, I probably use 10 times as much TBIII as the rest combined.
Contributor
Hi Patrick, I use Lee Valley 2002GF
Regards, Rod
Contributor
liquid hide glue, long open times, reversible, invisible to finishes (and cleans up easily with water), and you could probably eat it. Not waterproof, but I don't generally make outdoor furniture.Originally Posted by Patrick Kane
~mike
happy in my mud hut
Contributor
I get a "not available for tis region" message on the Lee Valley US site.
Contributor
Mike, I don't have a lot of experience with Hyde glue. I typically like to use epoxy for anything critical as it's wicked strong, long open times and while I need acetone or 99% alcohol to clean it, it generally makes for a beautiful glue line. But it's not cheap and it does take a bit more prep.
How is the durability/strength of hyde glue? Any types of wood it should be avoided? I'm intrigued using this. Any brand recommendations?
Contributor
It's interesting that people have such differing assessments of TBlll. Two of the architectural woodworkers I listen carefully to are on opposite sides of the fence. David Sochar eschews the stuff after some problems with high temperature failures in service while Joe Calhoon, I believe, uses it regularly in doormaking. I don't like its evident lack of rigidity and use Titebond ll or marine epoxy for exterior work depending on how sozzled I expect the work to get, and how much working time I need. I am aware of the allergenic potential of epoxy and try to work clean, but there are many boatbuilders who just can't tolerate the stuff after a certain amount of exposure. I do appreciate the almost unlimited shelf life and wide working temperature range of epoxy.
Contributor
These days the two brands are Old Brown Glue and Titebond Liquid Hide glue. I generally buy whatever is available easily. It's pretty much used like PVA, except that you'll want to keep it in clamps longer. I prefer overnight. It gets sticky when it's cold. Easy solution, put the bottle in hot water and it'll get as runny as you want (or don't, this is really nice repairing cracks btw).
As for strength, FWW did some testing (#192 - Jul/Aug 07 - page 39). They concluded that it's 79% as strong as Type 1 (waterproof) PVA, using bridle joints as a test bed. To be honest, however, I've seen lots of furniture that was made with hot hide glue (which is weaker than the liquid stuff) that's been in daily use for a couple hundred years. So I'm not really worried about glue failure, and if it did you hide glue sticks to itself. So you don't even have to remove all of it to repair it.
I don't work with oily exotics, so not a clue how well it'd work on those.
~mike
happy in my mud hut
Moderator
Context matters...
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Contributor
Context does matter. Some of those big jets are made of glued up parts with few or no rivets used. That submarine that imploded was made of glue up fabric rejected by Boeing. I bet they got a bargin price on glue as well.
BilL D
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote