The Dummy's Guide to European Bandsaw Setup

[Brian Holcombe]

The wheels on my machine are cut. I suppose I could measure the runout but there is no visible runout when rotated by hand.

If they aren’t faced, then how would they make them accurate after machining the bore?

[Tom Trees]

The wheels on my machine are cut. I suppose I could measure the runout but there is no visible runout when rotated by hand.

If they aren’t faced, then how would they make them accurate after machining the bore?

Don't have an answer for you there Brian, but there's nothing precision on any part of my wheels, precision like the wheel bores for example, or the wheel OD...
i.e not the hubs either side of the upper wheel, nor with the lower hub on the front, though seems like it might be at the back where the belt hub is, I didn't measure that.
You'll likely see the hubs aren't machined by eye, but you won't be able to see that 0.5mm discrepancy I mentioned.

If the wheels were dressed, I guess they would likely look like they do on the larger models of ACM's machines
Screenshot-2023-12-31 ACM SUMMA 940-2 Plastic cut 900mm height.jpg

and not like this, which looks to be the case with most Italian machines, if you look closely.
that is highlighted quite well in this photo.

One can also see some discrepancy in width on the face of the wheel, especially if they dress it, (should the wheel not be in tolerance for trusting already.)
The tape highlighted the high spots here, which was also the widest section, so definitely not the case of that being accurate either.
No issues with balance there, mind you...
So I've got no clue how they get the figs in the fig rolls?.
SAM_7722.jpg
Some old Centauro machines seem to be precision machined, just a guess though.
A safe bet with this machine perhaps agreeably so...
Centauro wheel.jpg
The SCM S45N looks to have been machined to better tolerances too, I'd be interested in reading the results
111116-20220223-152312.jpg
And perhaps more interestingly, but all ponderings really,
Screenshot-2023-6-7 Bandsaw Tuneup- Laguna 16 Bandsaw Gets A New Woodslicer Blade and Dust Colle.jpg
What's interesting about that machine to me is the seemingly lack of adjustability on the lower wheel,
so there could have been some very clever way of fabricating up such a machine. (I actually got told such before, interestingly from a machine company who used to re-badge similar machines to the below one, in the past, i.e non adjustable lower wheel.
so maybe there was some truth to that spiel afterall.
Screenshot-2023-6-7 Narrow Band Saw eBay(2).jpg

The pen will show up how accurate the wheels need to be, which would be the case for the co-planar adjustment
as with the above 0.5mm discrepancy on the upper wheel of my 24" saw, gave a variable reading of 4mm depending on the where the beam were placed...
but that's only counting for one wheel, and not both.
SAM_7208.jpg

All the best
Tom

[Mark Hennebury]

Trying desperately to tune up an old Meber bandsaw.SAM_2259.JPG SAM_2037.jpg SAM_2038.jpg

[Jerry Bruette]

Trying desperately to tune up an old Meber bandsaw.SAM_2259.JPG SAM_2037.jpg SAM_2038.jpg

Are you trying to balance the wheel or true up the face?

[Mark Hennebury]

Juts trueing up the face.

Are you trying to balance the wheel or true up the face?

[Brian Holcombe]

Tom, mine are machined like the second one you show. Interesting that yours have nothing machined other than the hub and the OD.

Mark, interesting setup!

Anywho, I'm guessing that in the factory there is emphasis put on getting the wheels co-planar so that the user has a range of adjustability that allows tracking the blade without going outside of the range of what's acceptable for co-planar. They seem to be giving advice knowing how difficult it would be to have the user adjust the wheels for co-planar in most cases so warning them off from touching it seems the prudent approach

Outside of that, it makes little sense that one would setup a bandsaw with no consideration for how co-planar the wheels are.

[Erik Loza]

…Anywho, I'm guessing that in the factory there is emphasis put on getting the wheels co-planar so that the user has a range of adjustability that allows tracking the blade without going outside of the range of what's acceptable for co-planar. They seem to be giving advice knowing how difficult it would be to have the user adjust the wheels for co-planar in most cases so warning them off from touching it seems the prudent approach…. Outside of that, it makes little sense that one would setup a bandsaw with no consideration for how co-planar the wheels are.

Brian, one might think, but I have my doubts and here’s why: Unlike the clock bolts, which control the camber of the wheel, there is no adjustment for the headspacing of the lower wheel in regards to the hub, shaft, frame, etc. You just install until the main bolt bottoms out…So, if someone is implying that there is a means to control the fore and aft position of the BOTH wheels, that would be incorrect. The upper wheel has fore and aft adjustment (via the manual tracking knob), but not the lower. You just install the lower wheel until the mounting bolt bottoms out. My assumption has always been that the various manufacturers engineered parts like the arbor shaft, hub, etc. in such a way that they meant for the production line to simply fit-until-tight…

IMG_3652.jpg

My experiences jive with that: Of the various MMs I’ve rebuilt, never needed to break out a straightedge or anything in order to get them cutting the ways I expected. Again, I am talking about CONTEMPORARY machines since there are vintage/worn-out machines being mentioned in this thread.

Erik

[Tom Trees]

They don't align anything from what I've seen.
Maybe they did, back when the design was foolproof, but I reckon they had some sorta tool for that,
i.e a mountable bearing on wheel shaft with a laser would likely be a fast way,
or something along the lines of that.

Tom

[Steve Mathews]

Nice writeup Erik on setting up a bandsaw. I've printed it our the next time I go through my saw. Can you offer some additional advice on SCMI bandsaws made prior to 2000? Mine is a 24" made in '84.

[Brian Holcombe]

Erik, that makes sense. I forget exactly how I went about this when I checked it, I may have just checked it with a spirit level to verify that they were close.

If I recall I clamped a straight edge across both wheels and sighted it from the top down to verify no twist in the assembly.

The machine tracks and cuts well, that's the ultimate verification.

Your comment on headspace makes sense, makes checking across both wheels with a straight edge not useful.

[Erik Loza]

Nice writeup Erik on setting up a bandsaw. I've printed it our the next time I go through my saw. Can you offer some additional advice on SCMI bandsaws made prior to 2000? Mine is a 24" made in '84.

Thanks, Steve. Unfortunately, I’m not really qualified to give advice on vintage Italian saws. Yours would almost certainly be a Centauro, though of much different spec than ones I have experience with. Sorry,

Erik

[Len Rosenberg]

Erik, thanks for this post, it is super helpful. I have a MiniMax S500P, and coincidentally, you were my sales rep! (For that and the FS41 Elite, both purchased in 2015). I would be most appreciative if you could provide detailed instructions on how to do steps 5, 6 and 7 on this saw. The manual is useless for that and I'm not sure what to do with the bolts under the table. Photos are helpful if possible.
Thanks and regards,
Len

[Len Rosenberg]

I figured out 6 and 7, just need your advice on adjusting the table, thanks.

Len

[andrew whicker]

Brian, one might think, but I have my doubts and here’s why: Unlike the clock bolts, which control the camber of the wheel, there is no adjustment for the headspacing of the lower wheel in regards to the hub, shaft, frame, etc. You just install until the main bolt bottoms out…So, if someone is implying that there is a means to control the fore and aft position of the BOTH wheels, that would be incorrect. The upper wheel has fore and aft adjustment (via the manual tracking knob), but not the lower. You just install the lower wheel until the mounting bolt bottoms out. My assumption has always been that the various manufacturers engineered parts like the arbor shaft, hub, etc. in such a way that they meant for the production line to simply fit-until-tight…

IMG_3652.jpg

My experiences jive with that: Of the various MMs I’ve rebuilt, never needed to break out a straightedge or anything in order to get them cutting the ways I expected. Again, I am talking about CONTEMPORARY machines since there are vintage/worn-out machines being mentioned in this thread.

Erik

That's interesting. My vintage (80's) has a spacer between the back of the lower wheel and the sheet metal box. So you can adjust the axial position of the lower wheel by changing the spacer width. I actually did that w/ my machine to make the wheels co-planar.

According to a laser and my tape measure, the lower and upper wheels were off 3mm. HOWEVER, I'm not convinced that the new co-planar I have (I made my own spacer and purposely did not modify the original), the blade seems to track worse axially.

As anyone that is reading my posts knows, I'm going to re-install the tires a 3rd time w/ different adhesive and slightly different methods, but I'm almost thinking that making the wheels "perfectly" co planar (< 1 mm) is not correct.

I can see how someone could possibly get into trouble by adjusting the lower wheels X and Y bolts, but you could always mark them before adjustment so that you can bring everything back to factory. However, I'm not convinced I understand what is important and what isn't important so far on these machines. I think there is a lot of discussion of: these are simple machines, etc.

I didn't think I had to be super careful on the tire side of the install, but I was wrong. I was under the impression I had to be really careful w/ co-planar, etc (i.e. machine setup), but I think I may have it backwards.

Anyway, I have time today / this weekend after I get an airbnb ready for guests to mess around with it some more. Hopefully I can share some good news.

[Erik Loza]

I figured out 6 and 7, just need your advice on adjusting the table, thanks.

Len

Hi, Len! Yes, I do remember you. I’m out of the house today but let me throw up some pics of the process tomorrow (Sunday) morning.

Erik