Best method to cross cut sheet goods over 16 inches, ie.e 24 inch?

[Michael Schuch]

I have always been challenged with accurately cross cutting sheet goods square when making pieces that are wider than 16", for example 24" wide for cabinet making. At my disposal are; RAS, sliding miter saw, highbred cabinet table saw, and of course a skill saw, I do not have a track saw and I find cross cut sleds for 24" much too big to manage. Up to now I rely on maintaining a factory OEM square corner to rip parallel against on the table saw fence, not very practical. I will be building new shop cabinets in the months to come and wanted to ask what other Creekers do to create square cross cut sheet goods around 24" wide utilizing economical solutions, i.e not a sliding table or expensive track saw system?

I am just finishing a rebuild on my Delta Long Arm radial arm saw which will crosscut to 24". Up till now I have been using a high end Mafell track saw. From what I have seen low end track saws can do pretty much everything a top end one can and do it just as well. Track saws are quick, accurate and make really good cuts.

Prior to my Mafell track saw I used an aluminum clamping guide and it is no where close to being as fast, accurate and having as good cut quality as a track saw.

You can pick up a good quality track saw for $400- $500. I doubt you will be disappointed and I doubt you will regret the purchase.

[Mike Cutler]

Benjamin


"Up to now I rely on maintaining a factory OEM square corner to rip parallel against on the table saw fence, not very practical. "

This is a flawed statement. I have found very few of the OEM sheet good to be square. You need square corners! 64th's add up quick in a cabinet back.
Most of the responses I have read are concerned with cutting a straight line, and while this is important, that line also has to be 90 degrees opposed to reference. That's not so easy for a single guy in a workshop, muscling about a 4'x8' panel.
Two tools that for me are indispensable are a known straight edge, and known good square. A guy working alone in his garage for himself would be wise to invest in high quality layout equipment. I layout all of my lines and measure before I ever lay the tracks down, and then cut to my lines.
In this picture I have already cut the panel square, and I am checking for square by measuring the diagonals They will only be the same, if the panel is square. The triangle is setup for a 45deg angle from a reference edge. If everything is correct, the straight edge will bisect the corners and the will will be the same length along the hypotenuse. That particular panel is 43"x43".
That triangle square is used to set my tracksaw 90 degrees to the reference edge, and measured parallel to an established drawn line. You need good layout tools.
IMG_3883.jpg

For cabinets, you need to be able to layout the lines first unless you have some "more than basic" machines to work with.
There are many ways to beat the expensive tracks purchase, and I'll tell you for a fact that a Diablo circular saw blade from Home Depot, and roll of masking tape will yield cut lines every bit as clean as a Festool tracksaw. Make an edge guide, buy a new Diablo blade and a roll of tape. It's worked forever.

[Tom M King]

I'm thinking since so many say they've had various troubles with using a circular saw and a shop made guide is that the problem may be the saw you're using. I use very smooth running pro saws mostly.

These saws in particular are Porter Cable 347, 743, and 447. They are lightweight 15 amp saws with almost all the metal being magnesium. They are very smooth running and if you look closely at the one cut in my earlier picture you can see that it's as good of a cut as you can get with a new Forrest blade in a good table saw. The 347 is a right bladed version, the 743 left bladed, and the 447 is like the 347 only it also has a brake. These saws haven't been produced for a while. They can go from more than they did new if you look on ebay. I have bought every good one that comes up for 50 bucks on CL, so I have some backups.

There are other good pro saws that run as smoothly.

I do have one cheap one that I keep a sheet metal cutting blade on that is used with a guide when cutting roofing panels. That one does chew up the edge of the guide, but I always thought it was from all the metal chips. It doesn't really matter for that job. It could just be the $35 saw.

That picture of the 20 foot long cut in the 1828 floor was either taken in 2012 or 2009. I don't remember exactly. In any case, I'm still using that same guide with the 1/4" luan bottom. I didn't make it for that floor job. It had been used for some number of years before then. The edge of it has not been harmed a bit in ever how many times it's been used over those years. It leaves clean edges with no tape still.

With the lightweight, smooth running saw, it is no trouble at all to do your one job of holding it against the guide board.

I have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of tools and equipment. If I had ever thought a track saw would pay for itself in time saved, I would have one. I don't work in other peoples' homes. If I did, I would get a track saw for the sawdust collection.

[Jim Dwight]

I think we all develop ways of making things that work for us. Then we resist changing because we know how to do it the way we do it. We all probably have enough things to spend money on and if you like using a circular saw and guide that's great.

But I can't see the "too expensive" option when a saw and track are now down to $250. A mid level like a Makita or DeWalt are more like $600. For a corded saw and track.

I also do not accept that they produce equivalent work. My main circular saw is a Milwaukee. I know I've used it with a 40 tooth blade but I have to admit I may not have with a 60 tooth piranaha. With the blades I've used in it the cut quality was not nearly as good. But the bigger issue is accuracy. When I made my 10 foot long dining room table, I prepared the edges of the cherry boards making up the 42 inch wide top with the track saw. My jointer is not nearly long enough for me to joint them on it. My glue joints are good, equivalent to those I make using my jointer. I just don't think you can do that with a circular saw.

If you produce finish cuts with your circular saws then maybe you really would not benefit from a track saw. But if you are breaking down large pieces with a circular saw and then recutting them on your table saw you can skip a step with a track saw. Mine makes cuts as good as my PCS. As accurate and as smooth. No need for the second step.

[Andrew Joiner]

I'm thinking since so many say they've had various troubles with using a circular saw and a shop made guide is that the problem may be the saw you're using. I use very smooth running pro saws mostly.

You're right Tom. I learned this back in the 70s when I bought my first safety speed cut panel Saw. It cut really straight and chip free. It had a high quality skill saw with good bearings. When you try to wobble the blade with your fingers there was no play at the bearing. I had a cheap saw that I used for rough cutting. That one if you wobbled the blade you could tell there was a lot of play in the bearings. Didn't matter for rough cuts on that saw.
After I retired from cabinet making I built a hobby woodworking shop around 1999. I made a vertical panel saw. My search started for a circular saw that didn't have blade wobble at the bearing. I visited several stores and surprisingly All the saws even the expensive ones had too much blade wobble. Believe it or not my local Walmart stocked a saw that had no blade wobble. I think it's a black and Decker. That homemade panel saw has cut over 300 4 by 8 sheets Perfectly square and chip free!

[Edward Weber]

But I can't see the "too expensive" option when a saw and track are now down to $250. A mid level like a Makita or DeWalt are more like $600. For a corded saw and track.

.

$250 is a far cry from a $30 clamp guide when you're trying to keep costs down.
These are shop cabinets, not museum pieces.

[Tom M King]

I've never had to recut an edge on a table saw. There is no way any tracksaw could produce a "better" edge. I will take any challenge from any person using their track saw for any bet for cut quality. If the closeup of that T1-11 cut with the old guide is not good enough, say what you need. What is the complaint with that cut out in the yard for a shop door T1-11 plywood edge. The saw it was cut with is probably 20 years old and has built several houses. The blade was a fairly new less than 20 buck blade.

I'm not arguing, but a number of others keep making claims that my way is inferior. What's the bet? Let's start with a bet that will make it worthwhile.

By the way, I did joint the boards for this 10' table on my old Delta 8" jointer. I don't remember the width since I built it in 1982, but 44" sounds about right. That was before the internet, so I guess I didn't have the advantage of learning on the internet that lengths of board straightened on a jointer were limited by the length of your jointer. I have seen that on the internet and got a good laugh out of it.

[Michael Burnside]

I've never had to recut an edge on a table saw. There is no way any tracksaw could produce a "better" edge. I will take any challenge from any person using their track saw for any bet for cut quality. If the closeup of that T1-11 cut with the old guide is not good enough, say what you need. What is the complaint with that cut out in the yard for a shop door T1-11 plywood edge. The saw it was cut with is probably 20 years old and has built several houses. The blade was a fairly new less than 20 buck blade.

I'm not arguing, but a number of others keep making claims that my way is inferior. What's the bet? Let's start with a bet that will make it worthwhile.

By the way, I did joint the boards for this 10' table on my old Delta 8" jointer. I don't remember the width since I built it in 1982, but 44" sounds about right. That was before the internet, so I guess I didn't have the advantage of learning on the internet that lengths of board straightened on a jointer were limited by the length of your jointer. I have seen that on the internet and got a good laugh out of it.

Tom, you might be taking things out of context. No bet necessary.

I don't think anyone is questioning your ability to do this. However, as learned from numerous posts by you, you have far more experience than the average person posting here. With that perspective in mind, it is conceivable that a track with sticky bottom, a guide to prevent saw deviation and a good blade, that person is likely to yield a better cut.

[Tom M King]

It's not a job that requires skill. I'm sure it does require a good saw.

Here is the condition of a 347, 743, or 447 that I would buy. You can tell how much use they've had by the wear on the finish over the magnesium on the bottom. This is one I would buy if it was on CL for 50 bucks. I have more than a lifetime supply, but this one would still be too hard to pass up if it was fifty bucks. There are still a lot sitting in someone's garage that may have used it for one homeowner job. I had one seller even drop one off at my house since he was coming this way anyway. It looks like someone that didn't know what they were doing cut the cord in two, but I'd still buy it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37509586117...Bk9SR_CD66-bYw

[Michael Burnside]

It's not a job that requires skill. I'm sure it does require a good saw.

That I totally agree. I actually have a similar saw as the one you posted, long before I had a tacksaw. I built a 20x12 shed using the saw and a "chunk" of aluminum to cut dozens and dozens of 4x8 panels and they all came out square!

[Dan Barber]

The irony is, it sounds like Tom has bought enough Porter Cable saws that he could have easily paid for a track saw .

I started out with a Saw Guide and this Porter Cable saw over 40 years ago, it's got a lot of sawing in it's past. 5 years ago I bought a track saw w/long and short rails and a MFT table. I never looked back. BTW, I think I paid $120 for that PC saw new in the 80's. That was a lot of money for a circular saw back then. I bought it because it's a drop foot design, not pivoting, thereby keeping the blade more square and parallel to the base. I also bought because my FIL had a Rockwell branded version of the same saw he had for 25 years before mine.
PXL_20240105_195250521.jpg
PXL_20240105_195240666.jpg

[glenn bradley]

A sled is my knee-jerk response.

Matchfit-Sled (27).jpg

This one has a capacity of 27".

[andy bessette]

Pretty sure most of the track saw hate comes from those who've never owned one.

[Edward Weber]

Pretty sure most of the track saw hate comes from those who've never owned one.

Personally, I don't "hate" them.
I just don't understand those who swear by them, as if that's the only way to get quality cuts.
Clearly that's not the case.

[Benjimin Young]

Thanks Edward, much appreciated.

$250 is a far cry from a $30 clamp guide when you're trying to keep costs down.
These are shop cabinets, not museum pieces.